knife knotes
part X
Updated 1/2/04
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate,
tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
men." --Samuel Adams
Red Cross Supply’s Multi-tools to Troops
A recent article pointed out to us by our good friend Bernard Levine places
the newest Red Cross Knives in the hands of troops. As many of you are aware
the Red Cross knives of World War One are highly sought out collectors items
of today. This newest offering brings the idea up to date. Instead of the
folding knife with spoon idea of long ago today the Red Cross is adding a
multi-tool to the parcels. While we have not yet seen a model of the item or who makes it the Red Cross has at least 10,000 planned for distribution. This
is all paid for from donations to that organization. Also included in the
parcels are a deck of cards, a book of crossword puzzles, snacks,
games, suntan lotion, tissues, a hacky sack ball, moist towelettes, a
hand-held fan and a multipurpose tool packaged in a lightweight, durable,
reusable travel bag. Each bag also has an acknowledgement card that the gift
is made possible through the generosity of the American people. The cost for
each package is $20 which makes us think the item may not be of the highest
quality but one never knows what buying power they have at the 10,000 level.
Either way a new collectible is now being sent to the folks in the field. If
anyone has further information please let us know.
Camillus Desert Tan Knives
A recent offering from Camillus Cutlery are the tried and true military
knives coated in a Desert Tan epoxy coating. Using the USMC Fighting / Utility
knife, the Jet Pilot Survival knife and the MIL-K-818C as the base these
knives are then coated in the tan color. The fixed blades have the blades,
guards and pommels coated while the folder only coats the handles. Not
official military purchased knives they are really cool variations to those
collecting such. We picked up all three for our collection and an extra or two
for trades at some future date. Cost is low and the knives are being phased
out now so maybe we will see prices rise in the aftermarket on these products
in a few years, if not they are still neat items.
Dented Scabbards
In a recent article written for Knife World on the Model of 1910 bolo knife
we stated that almost every metal scabbard we have seen is dented at the tip.
We have no idea but speculated it was due to packaging. Well we just received
a letter from Mr. Hank Loescher which may clear up that speculation. In his
letter to us Mr. Loescher states that many years ago he purchased a few cases
of the metal scabbards still packed in the original shipping crates. Upon
opening them they were found to be individually wrapped in brown kraft paper.
The boxes were addressed to the Bush Terminal, Brooklyn, NY. It seems they
were sitting on the docks when the war ended so they never made it overseas.
Each crate held 100 scabbards packed end to end, layered one row on top of
each other. The rows were reversed upon each tier. This placed the hanger end
right over the lower tip of the opposing scabbard and left a perfect dent in
the bottom of each scabbard in the box. None of these scabbards had ever seen
usage yet each had a perfect dent in the back side of the bottom. Well, that
does seem to clear up that little mystery to our satisfaction. Thanks for the
letter Mr. Loescher, every little piece of the puzzle helps in assembling the
whole picture!
Marbles 5 inch Ideals in Military Usage
We are trying to gather any information on the 5" Marbles Ideal
pattern knife for a future article. The main gist of the article will be the
use of the knives by the Army Air Force as a part of the Emergency Sustenance
Kits issued to each aircrewman during the war. We have some information on
them but lack any connection with Marbles actually having a military contract.
So far we have not found any evidence that they were purchased by the
government. We all assume that the Bakelite pommel models were wartime issue
but can we prove it… not yet. We do know that Marbles started using the
plastic pommels during 1942 / 1943 but they also continued to sell them right
up through the 1950’s so that in itself does not make it a military issue
piece. Perhaps they could not obtain the aluminum pommels during the war and
converted to the plastic but only for the private sales they still held. We
also know that Camillus, Case and Kinfolks made the same pattern knife and
sold them to the government for the AAF so why not Marbles? Either way it is
an interesting subject that we wish to know more about. If you have any proof
on the subject, such as a written document, not an oral history, we would be
mighty glad to hear from you!
Queen City Stamps
Here is a photo copy of a stamped turned up in the Queen factory. Notice
anything unusual about it? We do not know if it was ever used but we doubt it.
Any machete collectors out there have one so marked? We would love to hear
about it if you do.
Life-Raft Knives
A recent solicitation for knife purchase by the government caught our eye.
It was listed as a "Knife, Combat with Lanyard", something we had
not seen before. The Mark 2 is listed as a "Knife, Combat with
Sheath" so we were thinking it would be around that line of knife.
Further investigation proves it to be a Life-Raft knife. Looking up the NSN on
the item (1095-01-350-1525), shows many have been purchased over the past year
by the Aerospace Weapons Group out of the Defense Supply Center, Columbus.
Well we are at a loss at to what one looks like. We do know of many life raft
knives in the past but this one is a newer issue piece that sells for $33.90
each. Over one thousand purchased recently and the latest proposal list a one
year open ended contract which could prove to be very large but not exceed
$100,000.00. Again we are looking for help on this one, What does a Mark 3
Life-Raft knife look like??
Camillus Riser Cutters
In a recent exchange with our good friend Tom Williams, Company Historian,
Camillus Cutlery Co. we found out that Camillus made fixed blade riser cutters
in 1966 and 1967. Not a lot of them mind you but they did make them. We see
unmarked versions from time to time, we have seen the Schrade Walden marked
models along with the Aerial Machine and Tool models but never a Camillus
marked version. The marking were 62D4267 / 1966 on the base of the cutter like
all the others. Most we have seen with this marking were ink stamped not
actually hot stamped into the blade. That in itself is a fairly common marking
but the real test in finding one is the thong eyelet. It is a brass eyelet but
cadmium plated. This we have not observed but in reality we were not looking
for it either. We have collected riser cutters for many years and have
accumulated quite a few but none have this curious detail. In total 12,000
were made and shipped to Bristol Dynamics, a subsidiary of British Aerospace.
Now it could be they were made for the Commonwealth government or simply those
were the folks we were purchasing parachutes or other kits from, no
speculation on that part yet as further investigation continues.
UDT Scabbard
We find out from our good friend Bill Adams that the so called UDT scabbard
shown in Cole IV pg. 81 was a commercially available scabbard sold by
Healthways a well known divers supply company. When Bill was trying to track
them down as to who made them he ran into a stone walling from the Navy. Bill
approached his then Senator Sam Nunn, head of the Senate Armed Services
Committee to encourage the Navy to supply the name of the contractor. Well it
worked, Bill was supplied the name of Healthways as the supplier. This it
would seem leads to the fact that someone in the Navy knew of the scabbards.
Bill tried to arrange for the procurement of them to sell through his company
but the cost for the wholesale order was prohibitive to make any money with.
The scabbards were made in a Velcro closure as well and the familiar snap
closure retaining strap. While we have never seen any proof that these
scabbards were in fact used or tested by the SEALs we do now know they were
commercially sold items and in fact the Navy knew about them.
The A1 Folding Machete
The Imperial folding machete often found in it’s original light colored
leather holster is not of the World war two era. We are constantly asked this
question as they appear somewhat often in various auctions and at shows. Many
are in quite nice condition, unused and excellent or better is common. These
machetes were redesigned from the results of the 1944 machete test reports.
The handles and the carrying method are but two items that jump right out to
the casual observer. The obvious giveaway is the nomenclature printed on the
scabbard, Machete with Scabbard / Type A-1 / NO. 48C3839. The last line is the
drawing or engineering number beginning with the year. This example is 1948 so
that would make it a bit late for WW II. Although they are actually a 1947
design it was standardized with the drawing in 1948. The redesign is an answer
to several criticisms of the 1942 pattern. One major fault being that the
handle could fold up on one’s fingers, the formerly removable guard was
redesigned to serve as a lock for the blade when it is open and to fold over
the edge when it is closed. The guard-lock is permanently hinged at the end of
the handle. Quite an amazing engineering feat and quite complex to envision at
first until one is seen operate. The soft leather sheath holds a sharpening
stone in a pocket, in answer to another criticism of the original knife. The
sheath was furnished only with a swiveling belt loop large enough for a waist
belt of any sort but a rather awkward arrangement for someone wearing only a
belt-less flight suit. What was the flyer to use in this case is unknown to
us. When put to practical use it seems to be only a rather expensive piece of
engineering compromised by committee. The handle is sharp for constant use and
the weight and balance are completely off. The real V-44 as made by Case is a
much better tool for use in the F1 Hot Weather kit that the A-1 was packed
with and should have been included. In fact it would still be good inclusion
in any of today’s kits.
Get a Kick Out of This
Here we have a couple of photos from our good friend Bob Tronolone and his
bike. Leave it up to a knife guy to come up with something like this! A great
use for a Mk1918Mk1 handle on the loose. Bob’s working on a shifter now…
we can’t wait! Thanks Bob.
Updated 2/7/03
Quote:
"If we lived by the Golden Rule, there would be no need for other
laws."
Ronald Reagan
Quite a month
This month we have two super contributions from Gary Cunningham and Bill
Porter. Gary starts a two part series on the First Production M4 bayonets
while Bill opens up his vault to some on the rarest US bayonets ever producted.
The only place you can find them is here, on US Military Knives . Com!
USMC Sword Star Marking
Well it seems we kicked up a storm of controversy with this one. We
received a load of e-mails on this topic yet haven’t reached the bottom of
it, at least to our satisfaction. We still have not found an example in
writing of the "reason" it is placed there. We have several opinions
that run from most likely to out right absurd. As the official swords still
have this marking on them, both officer and enlisted, there must be something
in writing somewhere as to why it is so. Below are some of the responses we
have received.
Dear Frank,
The 'star' symbol actually represents interlocking triangles which was a
traditional symbol of armourers and swordsmiths. We used to use it in the 19th
century, but it was copied widely so we changed to the 'sunburst' symbol we
still use today.
As far as I know there were no links to the Star of David.
Regards
Rob Hadley
Wilkinson Sword's Business Manager
Dear Frank,
In alchemy, the interlocking triangles represent Fire and Water together.
A more practical theory is that during the Bar Kochba rebellion (first
century), a new technology was developed for shields using the inherent
stability of the triangle. Behind the shield were two interlocking triangles,
forming a hexagonal pattern of support points. This became known as a symbol
of strength.
David Fuller
Dear Frank,
I found this on the Wilkinson Sword home page, perhaps it is the answer to you
quest. Thank you for providing a thoroughly enjoyable web page.
http://www.wilkinsonsword.com/company/faqs.html#Q2
"The interlocking triangles sometimes seen on older blades made by
Wilkinson Sword is a mark originally used by Henry Wilkinson. This mark
represents the interlocking triangles of the armourer - an ancient symbol.
It was used extensively by Wilkinson Sword in the 19th Century and was
widely copied by other manufacturers and as a result has fallen out of use. As
far as we are aware there is no association with the Star of David. It has
since been replaced by the mark shown opposite, proclaiming the authenticity
of each Wilkinson Sword."
Rich Gathier
Dear Frank,
Long before this hexagram became the emblem of Judaism, it was revered as the
symbol of the joining of opposites - spirit and matter, yin to yang, heaven to
earth, Shiva and Kali - that maintains life in the cycles of creation and
destruction. The Seal of Solomon is a seal of protection and contains the
invisible Seventh Seal made from the four elements plus the divine number 3.
This symbol also was used in alchemy to symbolize alcohol - (fire and
water), a union of water and heat in perfect harmony. This possibly derived
from the Hindu union of male-fire-lightning with female-water-ocean in the
heart chakra (Anahola). In fact, the connection to the male-female union
carries over also in the "Sri Yantra" symbol of many triangles
intersecting heaven and earth.
GREEK: (Pythagorean system)
Aphrodite (Goddess of Love) - the union of 2 and 3
METAPHYSICS: The symbol of the Order of the Golden Dawn
William Shernoff
Dear Frank,
The hexagram of Solomon is an ancient symbol sometimes called the "Star
of David".
It is a protective talisman made to ward off negative or evil influences
and to aid in attaining perfection in deeds.
Anne Reid
Dear Frank,
Following WW I the sword was redesigned by Quartermaster General C. L.
McCawley USMC. This is when the current etch was added. In 2002 I had some
correspondence with Mr. Phil Melling of Wilkinson-Sword, He informed me that
the mark was not a Star of David but the Armourers Triangles. Also that if you
look at the mark inside of it is a circle with a smaller star and the word
PROVED. This is all I have on it.
Ron Braehler
Dear Frank,
The star was mentioned and condemned by the God of Israel in Amos 5:26 and it
was called by Him, `the star of your god, Moloch' or otherwise called `Chiun'.
Reference to Amos 5:26 and the Israelites having it in the wilderness was also
made in Acts 7:43. Here it was called the Star of Remphan. All these names
refer to the `god' Saturn.
The foregoing verifies that it was therefore in existence long before the
time of Solomon. He took this symbol upon himself when he went into idolatry,
and it became known as the `Seal of Solomon' in Arabic magic and witchcraft.
Richard Adams
Dear Frank,
Found this on the below listed site:
http://www.mca-marines.org/Leatherneck/faq.htm#Top
What is the significance of the star on the upper blade of the officer's
and non-commissoned officer's swords?
According to historian Ken Smith-Christmas, a curator at the Marine Corps
Air-Ground Museum, Quantico,Va., the six-pointed star on the swords was
originally a guild proof called the "Star of Damascus," an Eastern
mark of distinction found on swords of high-quality workmanship. Over the
years, the marking disappeared on blades. Museum correspondence with sword
makers such as Wilkinson and N. S. Meyers indicates manufacturers, primarily
British, have reintroduced that marking on swords.
Not the final answer but a start.
Rich Van Damme
Major, USMC (Ret)
So as you can see we have quite a few options to deal with here. We thought
we knew most of the visitors to the web site but this one really shocked us.
It seems it came up on a hit from Yahoo.com and Google.com about the Star of
David written into the page. Surfers who have never been here before and
actually have no interest in knives, bayonets or swords jumped right into the
quest to find a reason or at least point the way to other opinions. We even
received a few from the anti-semite crowd that we will not go into here,
suffice to say they were rather vulgar. A huge thanks to all those who offered
opinions and links to other pages. We still haven’t run this one to ground
but we are on the right track. It just may prove to be that a sword used for
the pattern had this marking on it and ever since it has been included, there
may not be a reason for it. Just one of the "we always did it that
way" answers, not quite to our liking but it is still an answer.
Camillus Commemorative Knives
A couple of 2-1984 dated Jet Pilot knives were recently found and our good
friend Tom Williams was contacted to sort it out. The knives were of the slab
side design and etched with various scenes, one a B-52, one a Huey UH-1D among
others. Tom responded that the knives were made for a company called Westwind
productions. The knife was our model #5733 Pilot Survival knife with a
polished blade and Parkerized guard and butt. The blade etching was done by
Adrian Harris and if my memory is correct there were seven models of Viet Nam
era aircraft. As always, Thanks Tom!
Quote
…The cavalryman wants a good horse, a good rifle, a good
revolving pistol, and a knife. I adhere to the opinion stated in my letter of
January 30, 1878 and recommend that the saber be abolished.
Chief of Ordnance, Brig. Gen. S.V. Benet
Letter to Board on Army Equipments Convened December 16, 1878
Awards Department
Below is a request for proposal issued by the U.S. Navy for incentive items
to be given away as awards. We clipped out all the non-knife related items
they were looking for.
Would this make them official US military knives?
Department of the Navy, Naval Supply Systems Command, FISC PUGET SOUND, 467
W STREET, BREMERTON, WA, 98314-5000
SOL # N00406-04-T-0039
The Fleet and Industrial Supply Center, Puget Sound, requires various brand
name or equal trophy-like items for the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard Employee
Performance Incentive Awards Program.
300 ea Buck 110 knife
350 ea Leatherman stainless steel 12 tools in one tool
200 ea Victorinox Swiss Army knives
125 ea small stainless steel buck knife
If You Ever Wanted a Kukri…
Now is the time to buy one if you are looking for an official Gurkha
military issue Kukri from Nepal. The deal finally went down, it was years in
the making. The Kingdom of Nepal sold off all the arms from the ancient armory
known as the Palace of Lagan Silekhana. Many if not most of the weapons have
never been touched in over 100 years. The Royal Nepalese Army has used British
weapons since the end of hostilities with Great Britain in 1815. This weapons
cache is a wonderful find to the collector of British weapons, including
rifles, bayonets and swords. The edged weapons such as the Kukri are being
sold by Atlanta Cutlery, www.atlantacutlery.com
right now. Don’t expect a museum piece, these were all issued and used
weapons left in storage for many years. Of the examples we have seen there is
a lot of gunk and storage marks. Still with all that these are the times to
buy Kukris if you ever wanted one. They have several models to choose from and
coverage of different eras. IMA, www.ima.usa.com
is the company with the rifles and other weapons. Many bayonets were uncovered
and are available from them. A great time to buy British weapons. Many Kukris
were used in the CBI theatre by U.S. military forces during World War Two. A
look over some photos of Merrill’s Marauders will show the knife in the
belts of several US soldiers. Now here is a piece of information usually over
looked with any write up on a Kukri, to two utility blades. What are they and
what are they for you ask… The Chak-mak (blunt tool ) is used as a flint
tool in fire making and a sharpener for the blade. Using the Chak-mak against
the edge of the Kukri to and fro in long parallel motions does the traditional
method of sharpening a Kukri. The other knife accompanying Chak-mak is the
Karda that is used for skinning and all around utility purposes. It is a well
thought out tool that was made into a weapon by reasons of necessity, a
well-respected weapon we should add.
Quote
If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use
more strength...
Ecc 10:10
We think that is the first ax quote we have ever used!
More on the Riser Cutters
The fixed blade, Cutter, Pocket goes back to 1960 from some examples we
have seen stamped in ink. Both the green and the orange examples we have are
stamped with the same Part Number, 60C6037, with the first two digits being
the year of the drawing for that part. This example is 1960. The earliest
models are date stamped and are all green, at least in our collection. The
orange came in much later The latest date stamp we have is 1992 which is
orange. All of these lace onto the parachute harness attached directly to the
risers next to the jumpers hands for easy reach.
When we wrote the article on the MC-1 several years ago we called the hook
blade cutter end a "shroud" cutter as do most collectors. We were
severely reprimanded in a letter from a 20 year veteran jumpmaster who told us
"shrouds cover dead bodies. Risers connect to canopies and these knives
are meant to cut either, but the cutting is to be done by a living person, not
a corpse covered by a shroud." From that point on we do not use the
collector term of shroud cutter.
The MC-1 is still supplied to aircrews and is still purchased by the
government with Camillus being the current supplier. Two very different
knives, with the MC-1 being able to accomplish two demanding jobs while the
riser cutter is only meant to be used once the parachute is deployed. In fact
it can not be handled unless the parachute is open, it is packed inside the
chute package. The MC-1 was originally designed to be worn in a pocket on the
inside of the thigh sewn into the flight suit. The hook blade was to be open
and a lanyard is attached to the bail for easy extraction from the pocket. The
switch blade, although having a "cool" factor was designed for one
purpose, to easily open in the cramped confines of a cockpit when almost no
movement could be made. It is for an emergency when the pilot’s air
floatation device misfires and inflates while still flying. The hand is
naturally on the stick, next to the inner thigh. He can then pull on the
lanyard to extract the knife from the pocket and push the button and stick the
inflated "Mae West" to release the air and regain control of the
aircraft. That is the only reason it is a switchblade. The scenario of hanging
in a tree with one arm broken was not contemplated during the original trials
for the knives. It is something that became urban legend over the years.
Well anyway both types are still in production and may be found at many
shows if you look keenly for them. Both are still pretty cheap when found,
even in excellent condition. We are working closely on a full-blown article on
these for Knife World in the very near future. Will up date you when it
happens.
Clyde Cutlery
We received this from our good friend Carter Rila. Carter is the king of
machetes and working tools, the knowledge he has gained from years of research
is amazing.
Clyde Cutlery was sold in June of 1970 to the Shelby-Clyde Corporation,
Shelby, Ohio. The fire occurred in July of 1970. Production did resume after
the fire. The work largely involved finishing orders already received and
working with materials salvaged from the blaze. Later in the year assets were
sold to the Shelby Corporation and operations moved to Shelby.
Of course we all know of the Clyde machetes and kitchen knives, this is
what became of the grand old company.
Quote
When the Feddle Gummint wants money, it makes things up—the Maine, the Gulf
of Tonkin, nerve gas, Mars, the universe. It always works.
Fred Reed 1/04
ROSCO
For a few years we have searched for the source of the k-bar like knives
marked ROSCO on the ricasso. Well our good friend Bernard Levine turned up the
answer. Bernard answered the question in his WHUT IZZIT column in the January
2002 issue of Knife World. We only write it up now as we just received a
request for identification on a knife marked ROSCO. Seems other folks might
also like to know.
'Mr. Steve M. Kessler of California has identified ROSCO. In the early
1950s, Mr. Kessler was a salesman for Winfield Arms Corporation, the
"West's Largest Mail-Order Gun House." One of his customers, for
military surplus rifles, ammunition, etc., was a small importer in Los Angeles
called the George Rose Company. Rose's trademark, on knives that he imported,
was ROSCO. Like most of the small-time cutlery importers in that period, ROSCO
was short-lived. The firm was active from 1950 to 1955.'
Thanks Bernard!
A New F/S Knife Turns Up
From our good friend John Fischer we received this note. It is pretty
amazing after all these years when a new item turns up to the collecting
world.
I believe I have made a new discovery of a previously unknown British Army
Inspector.... /I\ A3. He must have not been at it very long before he
left, or retired, was transferred to other duties, or whatever, as I have
never heard of, nor seen this stamp before. I'm very excited as I thought that
there were only five (5) different proof marks on early 3rd Pattern F-S
Stilettos that have the Wilkinson characteristics...small pommel nut with
familiar clamp marks, thick drop forged/hand ground blade, etc. /I\ B2 (or
/I\B..) /I\ 42 /I\ 21 /I\ I /I\ V Or really
on any British Commando Knife, and Commonwealth Knife or Bayonet for that
matter...not just 3rd Pattern F-S Knives. Anyway this is what always keeps
military knife collecting interesting, and never boring. If anyone has seen
this proof mark before, please let us know. Oh...of course you can all see
that the die used and stamping details match other known proof marks, and
there is no doubt in my mind that it is completely authentic, besides it's
really only of interest to advanced F-S Knife collectors anyway and I doubt
the forgers out there would waste their time.
Thanks John, well done!
Click on the thumbnails for the full size photos
Quote
The early bird might get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Unknown
Mike Silvey Sales List
Mike just published his List # 2 with a lot of great knives for sale. Many
are very rare to encounter on the open market so it should be a list any
active buyer is on the receiving end of. Nice short write ups and photos of
the knives. You can contact Mike at:
m.silvey@comcast.net or by phone at
530-644-4590
Good hunting.
Knife Prices
We recently received a listing of prices on a few military knives recorded
many years ago by our good friend Garry Zalesky. Garry was keeping record of
sale prices and prices on knives in his collection. He recently discovered
some of the old information he had stored away and sent it to us for a good
laugh. Seems military knives have been a rather good investment over the years
in most cases. Some were as expensive back then as they are now. Just like the
stock market…
|
Knife Model |
1967 |
1968 |
1969 |
|
1887 Hospital Corps |
$85.00 |
|
|
|
1880 Hunting Knife |
$40.00 |
|
|
|
Dahlgren Bayonet |
$150.00 |
|
|
|
1849 Rifleman’s |
$150.00 |
|
$325.00 |
|
1872 Trowel |
$95 |
|
|
|
1869 Trowel |
$350.00 |
|
|
|
1868 Trowel |
$350.00 |
|
|
|
1873 Trowel |
$35.00 |
|
|
|
1880 Hunting (Iron) |
$85.00 |
|
|
|
Hicks Knife |
$150.00 |
|
$400.00 |
|
Krag Bowie Bayo |
$150.00 |
|
|
|
Krag Bolo Bayo |
$150.00 |
|
|
|
OSS Stiletto |
$125.00 |
|
|
|
USMC Stiletto |
$150.00 |
|
$200.00 |
|
V-42 Stiletto |
$150.00 |
|
$250.00 |
|
Everitt Knuckle |
$70.00 |
|
$95.00 |
|
M3 Trench Knife |
$8.00 |
|
$20.00 |
|
V-44 |
$25.00 |
|
$40.00 |
|
Large Ranger Bowie |
$85.00 |
|
$125.00 |
|
Small Ranger Bowie |
$75.00 |
|
$160.00 |
|
M1918Mk1 HD&S |
$85.00 |
|
$85.00 |
|
M1918 HD&S |
$35.00 |
|
$75.00 |
|
M1918 Mk1 LF&C |
$25.00 |
|
$45.00 |
|
OSS Smatchet |
$45.00 |
|
$100.00 |
|
OSS Escape Knife |
$150.00 |
|
|
|
M2 Paratrooper |
$15.00 |
|
$35.00 |
|
M1917 Trench |
$20.00 |
|
$35.00 |
|
M1918 Trench |
$22.00 |
|
$35.00 |
|
Deep Sea Diver |
$40.00 |
|
|
|
F/S Stiletto |
$17.50 |
|
$25.00 |
Oh for those days again! Thanks Garry, that made our day.
A New, New Caledonia Knife
Courtesy of our good friend Doug Bailey we have received photos of a
different style of the rare New Caledonia knife. The knives are all different
to begin with but all seem to follow the same pattern, that is until now. This
knife was made differently them the others but follows in the basic format
with an all steel blade, brass full guard and a antler handle. This example is
also marked differently then example so far seen. It is engraved NOUMEA
NOUVELLE CALEDONIE on the guard. It also has engraved on it a date of 1943.
Just like the F/S knife noted above this one has escaped the collectors for
many years. Thanks Doug!
An Unknown EOD Knife.
Here we feature a previously unknown non-magnetic knife used by the EOD
folks. Well as far as we are concerned it is still an unknown, as now we do
know what it looks like we just don’t know anything about them. The knife is
featured on John Gibson’s and Gary Ruleford’s website for sale. (check it
out if you haven’t already www.militaryfightingknives.com
) The example is in mint condition and still retains the blade and handle
etching. This is the only clue we have to these knives, their makers and
perhaps some history. The company name on the handle is Berylco, this is easy
enough to research with the use of the computer and the internet. We find that
the actual name of the company current is Kawecki Berylco Industries Inc. They
have several plants located around the U.S. The Beryllium Division is located
in Hazleton Pa. The actual name of the knife is Knife, Craftsman’s in the
supply chain. The knives are under the purchasing interest of the U.S. Navy,
Naval Ordnance Systems Command, formerly the Bureau of Naval Weapons located
in Washington, D.C. The knife carries the requirement statement of "
Non-Magnetic and Non- Sparking" along with a style designator of
"AL32 Curved Point." The NSN for these knives are 1386-00-832-4175.
The CAGE code for the Hazleton Division is 9B115 but we do not know if this is
the point at which they are purchased, it may be from another division of
Kawecki Berylco. It seems that each plant and division has their own CAGE code
which makes the point of origin hard to pin point, we choose the Beryllium
plant as an example and the most likely. For the services wishing to order
such a knife the supply is listed with the Navy and orders for knives are to
go through them. This is perhaps a stocking feature of the Navy which carries
them in one of the Defense Warehouses. We also found that the knife is listed
for procurement by the Army, Air Force and Marines. That would mean all the
services are qualified to purchase this item if the need arises. The knife is
listed as a single item so no scabbard is assigned to it, what they carry it
in is a mystery. It is also listed as a disposable item not to be repaired if
damaged. With the danger in grinding or welding Beryllium it is a sound
practice. The dust given off in the grinding process is dangerous to the lungs
if inhaled. Two part numbers are listed for this knife in the Defense
Logistics Agency, why we do not know but it has two. The first is 1286848 and
the latter is 2113228. Well that is what we found so far, if anyone can add to
this please let us know. What we would really like to know is what do the use
it for? Are the non-magnetic properties important or are the non-sparking
properties the reason for its existence. Perhaps it is a new powder knife for
use on the old style big guns? So far it is still a guess, at least to us.
Updated 3/1/04
Red Cross Knives Revisited
In our January update we discussed the folding pocket tools the Red Cross has included in packages to our troops supporting the War on Global Terrorism. One of our ever astute field observers and good friend Major John C. Jacobi proceeded on a mission to find one for closer observation. John is stationed over in the land of the big desert with the 2nd Battlefield Control Detachment of the United States Army. After a few e-mails between us, Major Jacobi finally procured an example of the noted specimen. The following is a letter sent to us with the item for further research.
SWORN STATEMENT
13 Feb 04
After having seen information on Frank Trzaska’s website about the American Red Cross sending tool-kit knives to deployed soldiers in Operations Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom and Operations in the Horn of Africa, I called the Red Cross Coordinator, Mrs. Brenda Hindman at Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar. Mrs. Hindman stated she received a shipment of over 200 of the tool-kit knives in November 2003, and sent them to First Sergeant of the 379th Air Expeditionary Wing, Camp Andy, Al Udeid Qatar.
Senior Airman Matthew Carlson of the 379EAMXS/391AMU provided this example for edged weapon researchers, it was then sent to Mr. Frank Trzaska. It is reported that the tool-kit came with a key chain ring and black Velcro pouch. The Airmen however upon receipt of these tool-kits would remove the chain and discard the pouch.
The interesting feature of this tool-kit knife is that it incorporates a miniature LED flashlight in addition to the pliers, serrated edge blade, Phillips head blade, bottle opener blade/flat tip screwdriver and normal knife blade.
The LED light is very bright and assists in no light conditions.
John C. Jacobi
Major
2nd Battlefield Control Detachment
United States Army Reserve
Al Udeid Air Base Qatar
The multi-tool is completely unmarked. In it’s folded state it measures in at 2 5/8 inches long by 1 3/16 inches at it’s widest point. Very Compact unit when folded. Open with the pliers folded out it runs to 4 1/8 inches and with the longest tool open it stretches out to 5 ¾ inches. The LED flashlight is powered by 4 AG3 button cell batteries and provides a very powerful blue light. It has a machined aluminum body with the typical screw type on / off switch. The unit is waterproof with a rubber o-ring in the top to seal the battery compartment. The life expectancy of LED bulbs is very long, thousands of hours, while they are also impervious to most shock and vibration situations they can be broken, just not easily. The tool blades consist of a clip point blade which is very sharp right from the factory. A cutout in the tool handle aligns with the nail nick in the blade for easy opening. The next tool in line is the Phillips head screwdriver. Typical stamped blade with the end tapering down to the rounded head in with the screwdriver tip is machined. Our next blade is a straight blade screwdriver tip with a cut in bottle-cap opener. Straight blade screwdrivers are always handy to have for picking or prying as well as the traditional function. The bottle-cap opener would certainly come in handy when a few bottles of good beer are passed around. In times like these the man with the cap opener is a very good friend indeed. And last but not least we have the fourth and final blade, a full serrated cutting edge. Not really a saw but more of a rope or fabric cutting blade. This blade being at the opposite side of the first blade also possesses a nail nick and a cut out in the frame to access it. The pliers are of a needle nose design with serrated teeth in a pipe gripping curved center. The rear of the jaws contain a wire cutter for small gage soft wire like commo cord and such. They are also spring loaded to remain in the open position, a great feature when trying to use only one hand. All in all a very compact tool that is more then capable of light chores around a base when a handy tool will save the walk for the proper one or in those instances where it may be the only tool available.
As for the absence of markings on the tool it leaves us wondering, who makes them and where are they being made? As the box was not enclosed with the package it yielded no clues to the original manufacturer. As this specimen was only received two days before this was posted we have not had time to dig into it yet, but we will. Further exploration is intended and the results will be provided as they are found.
All blades and features shown above. As a size comparison we have placed
it against a nickel and an issue Gerber multi-tool. The last photo shows the
Red Cross tool along side the rare Desert Tan Bayonet Collectors Network
patch, thanks Major!
Quote
The Secretary of War directs that the new weapon…approved as a “Cavalry Sword, Model 1913,” be known as the “Cavalry Saber, Model 1913.”
Chief of Ordnance
April 15, 1914
"Geezers" are easy to spot:
At sporting events, during the playing of the National Anthem, Old Geezers hold
their caps over their hearts and sing without embarrassment. They know the words and
believe in them. Old Geezers remember World War I, the Depression, World War II, Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Normandy
and Hitler. They remember the Atomic Age,
the Korean War, The Cold War, the Jet Age and the Moon Landing, not to mention Vietnam.
If you bump into an Old Geezer on the sidewalk, he will apologize. If you pass an Old Geezer
on the street, he will nod or tip his cap to a lady. Old Geezers trust strangers and are
courtly to women. Old Geezers hold the door for the next person and always, when walking,
make certain the lady is on the inside for protection.
Old Geezers get embarrassed if someone curses in front of women and children and they don't like
any filth on TV or in movies. Old Geezers have moral courage. They seldom brag unless it's
about their grandchildren.
It's the Old Geezers who know our great country is protected, not by politicians or police, but by
the young men and women in the military serving their country.
This country needs Old Geezers with their decent values. We need them now more than ever.
Thank God for Old Geezers!
The Border
For those of you who remember we wrote an article for Knife World back in October 2002 about the then unknown to the collecting world continued service of the Case V-42. We have continued correspondence with one of the veterans of that group, the VII Corps LRRP Co.
(ABN), Theo Knaak. Theo has been kind enough to forward to us memories and stories of the V-42 and it’s use in 1962 along the East German border when ever the topic is spoken of by the group. The following is one of the stories forwarded to us recently along with a photo of the V-42 in service along the border with fellow LRRP Patty Smith. What great guys!
I copied E-mail from Bob Murphy a little while back about pulling time on the border.
I went up to the boarder two times. The first time was on the East German border I think.
My team was assigned a watchtower to observe the bad guys that were out there somewhere. Boring. I can’t remember anything that is harder on ones morale then to keep him caged up in a 12x12 foot room with little more to stimulate his medieval mind then watching snow fall off branches.
This could only go on for so long until one of us said, Saddle up.
I don’t know if it was my idea or my partner in crime, the one and only Joe Chetwynd’s idea. Anyway we decided it was time for a small recon patrol, after all that is what we do, isn’t it?
We put on our whites; V-42’s M-14 loaded, and a few cans of c rats and down a well-used trail we went. It only took us about a half an hour of good walking when we heard the first sound that seemed out of place. We did like we were taught in grade school. You remember, Drop and Cover. After listening for about 10 minutes we still could not determine what the sound was so we decided to investigate just a little. We knew we were within meters of the border but didn’t know on which side we were as the trail has moved around quite a bit. As we approached the sound. It sounded like people were being hurt; We could here someone yelling as loud as he could; Then the yell was followed by loud cracking sounds; We finally arrived on the scene of an old man with a stubborn horse trying to pull a log back to his house. Not being detected we retraced our steps back to the trail that we were calling the autobahn by this time.
After having a good belly laugh, we continued on down the trail Joe in the lead. Joe was first to see a patrol of two East German soldiers with one of the biggest German Shepard’s and two of the biggest SKS rifles I have ever seen. We came to a screeching halt. Now we were really concerned about our location. We were still undetected and we had to choose what we wanted to do. Fish or cut bait. Setting in the snow for a few minutes Joe asks me, do you think they would have a light? I said Joe, I didn’t think this was a good time for a cigarette. He says and why not; Jumps up and starts strolling to the German Patrol saying Haven Zie Fire
Bitte? Now the dog is mad and jumping at his chain The German wont give Joe a light and they are speaking to each other really fast. Joe is calling them bad names because they won’t give him a light. At this time they didn’t know that I was around. I didn’t like the way they were talking to themselves. I really didn’t want to see anyone get hurt so I stood up and yelled at Joe.
Hey Joe maybe I should Kill his F... Dog. At the sound of my voice the dog went crazy the Germans changed their attitude and started on down the trail in front of us. I caught up with Joe.
What should we do now Joe? There was still daylight and we didn’t want to go back to the little tower yet. So we got off the trail, ate a can of ham and lima beans, cold of course. Then we went back to the dam tower and suffered all night. I think it was from the lima beans.
McNasty
A photo of Patty Smith along the East German border with M14, V-42 and
snow camo whites. On either side are V-42's from that 1962 issue brought home
by the LRRP's.
Quotes
Elitism is simply the idea that the better is preferable to the worse. Why anyone with good sense would be against it escapes me.
Fred Reed 01/04
Another Taylor Huff Knife
A few months back we featured a knife made by Taylor Huff during World War Two. That knife was unlike the other known versions in that it didn’t have the famous knuckle bow on the handle. Well our good friend John Gibson had turned up yet another example of Mr. Huff’s
handi-work. Just thinking out loud here, Taylor Huff tried several different designs before he settled on the knuckle knife design that he had patented. These knives are most likely pre knuckle handle knives, pieces made in the experimenting days. We sure wish a bit more information would surface on Mr. Huff but when we were researching the article for Knife World all options then known were explored. Since that time nothing else has surfaced about the man but we have indeed been treated to a few more knife designs created by him. A Taylor Huff knuckle knife can bring in major money these days, the knives without the knuckle bow are even rarer then them. Lucky indeed is the collector who ends up with one of these knives.
The traditional double edged dagger blade is used on this example as is the
sweeping "S" guard featured on the other known examples. Using this
as a guide Mr. Huff did follow somewhat of a pattern in his
experimentation.
John Gibson is offering his for sale on his GREAT web page,
www.militaryfightingknives.com
Along with the Huff knife, John and Gary Ruleford always turn up some very nice military knives for sale and always at a fair price. Thanks for sharing it with us John!
The third non-knuckle Taylor Huff knife we have observed. A rare specimen
to say the least!
Another Knuckle Knife
Here is one we had not seen before, a knuckle bow made for a bayonet. Well you say you have seen that before but this one is a bit different, the
bayonet need not be altered. A knuckle bow was made to fit into the bayonet mounting hardware allowing it to be taken off when the bayonet was needed for the end of the rifle and inserted when used as a trench knife. Pretty slick little device and well made from the looks of it. The photos were submitted to us by Peter Hagen, who is also the owner of the piece. Pete tells us that the lug mounted on the handle grip is actually a piece from the rifle, machined to fit the guard and permanently installed there. The knuckle spikes were machined from steel and inserted into the steel guard strap. It is a simple slip fit and a press of the release button on the bayonet removes the guard. The bayonet itself is a M1888 British piece with the double edged blade but it would work easily with just about any other type of bayonet using a muzzle ring and mounting lug set-up. Very cool, thanks Pete!
What a great and practical setup for a knuckle knife!
Need Sheaths…
While checking the government website for any edged weapon activity we ran across a pre-solicitation posted on 1/28/04 looking for a bid on machete sheaths. The quantity requested was 8,000 to fit the standard 18 inch M1942 type machete. That is a whole lot of machete sheaths. A real lot when you figure we are fighting in the desert on several fronts right now. When we learn more it will be posted here.
More on Randalls
We eagerly await Bob Hunt’s new book on Randall Made Knives, “Randall Military Models.” It is a follow up to the first book by Bob, Randall Fighting Knives in Wartime. The first book was a winner and the second promises more of the same. It will have full color pictures like the previous book with coverage on an extended basis. The new book promises 150 full color Randall Made knives many before never photographed. A new section to be added is the “Carried pieces” which we look forward to seeing. Pre-publication ordering at a 20% discount can be had through March 15th directly from Turner Publishing. 1-800-788-3350 or on the web at
www.turnerpublishing.com
We wish Bob Hunt the best of luck in this endeavor, it will be a welcome addition.
Updated 4/4/04
Quote
Arms, women and books need to be looked at every day.
Dutch Proverb
More on the Red Cross Knives
Our good friend Ron Braehler spotted in Brigade Quartermasters
catalog #86c, Pg.131 the same pattern item. They list an almost identical tool
as Dakota [trademark] micro tool with led light for $18.99, Catalog # DTT39.
So we sent for a few of them for comparison. There is no doubt these items
were made by the same company. The Dakota items is unmarked like the one sent
to us from overseas but the new item contains a small sticker inside the
handle which reads "Made in China" and this is enough to beat the
importation laws on marking cutlery. There is one significant difference in
the tool, the flashlight lens is constructed in an entirely different manner.
You can note from the side by side photos this difference. We point this out
as a way of telling the difference in a Red Cross supplied knife from one
purchased commercially. Perhaps the RC knife is an earlier model of the same
item, we do not know and will not speculate on it at this time. We are still
trying to gather information on them to put it all together. The current item
is imported by the Dakota Watch Co. but so far little information on the
actual manufacturer is known.
In another front we also received from Major Jacobi the black nylon pouch
the toll was originally supplied with. It has a Velcro tab to close the cover
and a small sewn on loop in the back for hooking to a belt. It would have to
be a very small belt as the opening is one an inch and a half total. Most
likely it would be affixed to the many MOLLE straps on todays gear, not worn
on the belt.
Again we would like to thank all those involved with helping us gather all
the info on these items so far. We still have a lot further to go to know the
whole story but we are certainly on the right track to uncover it. Stay tuned
for further updates on the new tools and if you have any additional
information on these please let us know.
Another Cole Knuckle Knife
We have recently been contacted on a strange knife discovered in
the effects of a young man that was killed during the Korean War. Once
described it had to be a Cole knuckle knife. We relayed the information only
to find out the man who now owns the knife lives in Birmingham Al, Mr. Coles
home town. Perhaps the two knew each other or had crossed paths at one time.
The current owner took the knife to a gun show to try and find out anything
about it. One dealer offered him $500.00 for it but it wasn’t for sale, the
man wanted information on it but did not receive anything there. You see the
knife is currently owned by the original owners nephew who treasures the knife
for the intrinsic value on it, not it’s monetary worth. We humans are a
strange lot, we place value on emotions that outweigh the common sense aspect.
After all it is only a knife, the value is increased by who made it, not
whether it actually works better. And it is a good thing we do, many of our
most treasured objects would be lost if we lacked this emotional tie. So here
we present a Cole Knuckle knife still in the family passed down a generation
and we hope it is passed along again and again for some time to come.
Quote
I would dispense with the present cartridge-box, belts, and sabers
… with breech loading arms, the ‘bold sabreur’ must disappear … Even a
charge, when possible, will do more execution by the momentum of the horse and
the use of the revolver than with the saber.
General of the Army, William T. Sherman
The Road So Far
It takes money to buy a classic old knife, many of them take quite
a bit of money. It seems to me that the actual purchase of the object is only
part of the experience. The hunt for the specimen is in itself a valuable
experience. While it is not a tangible asset it is a memory, thoughts of
voyages made long ago can be just as satisfying. Friends and acquaintances
made along the road will long outlast the thrill of the purchase. As we are an
aspiring "Dead White Male" the interactions observed at many a gun
show play out this scene over and over again. We don’t consider ourselves as
a journalist in the contemporary sense of the word, more like an old time
scribe adding to the journal with observations. We are not a journalist
reporting the news, we simply comment on it. And yes, we misspell words and
use improper grammar. We will be the first to say that we don’t have much in
the way of higher education, we never went to college, never wanted to. We are
not saying higher education is bad, in fact we encourage it, it just wasn’t
for us. We are content in our current role and for those of you who contact us
and comment on spelling or grammar, fire away, we gladly accept all forms of
correction when proven. With all of it’s ups and downs the road has been
great in knife collecting and we look forward to many more years of it and
discoveries along the way. One knife at a time builds even the mightiest of
collections, one knife at a time…
Baltimore Antique Arms Show
We just returned form what we consider the best show in the world
for bayonet collectors. Being the home show for the Society of American
Bayonet Collectors it attracts folks from around the globe all with the common
passion of collecting bayonets. It also brings out the best items for sale one
could imagine. Many items that are virtual one of a kind or so rare as to
never have been shown in books are a common sight at Baltimore. If money were
no object you would need a large truck just to take them all home. We picked
up a few items for our collection and sold a few as well. We also found a few
additional paper items to add to the files for further research. If you have
ever contemplated attending a show on the Mid Atlantic border we can recommend
this one highly, you will not be disappointed with the items for sale or the
friendly faces to share stories with.
Double Stamped Ka-Bar
We recently added a 1219C2 to the collection we have not observed
before, that is saying a lot as we have been looking at these knives quite
closely for over 30 years. This one happens to have a manufacturing flaw of
being double stamped on the same side. The USMC stamp is placed over the Kabar
/ Olean, NY stamping. The Kabar name stamping is in the right location, the
USMC is the misplaced stamp. The knife itself is in very good condition having
been used it is not mint but has never been machine sharpened. The butt has
been modified in a way we have also never observed. A hole was drilled down
through the butt and into about a inch of the leather washers. A large cotter
pin was inserted through the hole to make a lanyard or thong loop. A very
simple yet effective modification of the knife. It would have been easier to
just drill the hole in the pommel and through the leather on an angle but this
worked for the owner. It does prevent the pommel from being used as a hammer
unless you have a very good aim so it does take away from the utility purposes
of the knife as a tool for purposes other then cutting. This knife is an early
version having the thin leather washer handle with a thick pommel peened on a
round tang. Along with the dual, or should we say almost dual sided marking it
would place this knife in the early to mid 1943 range as far as production
goes. Neither the scabbard nor the knife have any ownership markings on them
as to who the owner was, although it has been well taken care of as there is
not a spot of rust on the piece. Even the staples in the scabbard body are
still clean and bright. It just goes to show you that new items pop up all the
time, just when we thought we had them all another variation comes along to
look for. Does it ever end… we certainly hope not!
Quote on Bayonets
If your close enough to stick ‘em, your close enough to shoot
‘em.
Willie and Joe the movie via Bill Mauldin
Gerber Mark II
We recently received in the mail from our friend George Dillman a
copy of the original booklet included with every Gerber Mark II knife. George
received this knife in June 1971 prior to his shipping overseas. The booklet
is dated 10/70 and does not have information on the serrated blades. The knife
George has that was included with this paperwork is serrated. At this point in
the brochure it wasn’t even an option they included. The serial number of
the knife George has is 020937 so it must be one of the first to have the
serrations. Thanks George for the copy of this booklet and the information on
your knife!
An Experimental M1918 Mk1 ??
In a recent exchange of e-mails and phone calls with Kevin Gauthier
we may have stumbled onto a very exciting knife. At first glance it appears to
be a typical Model of 1918 Mk 1 knuckle knife. A closer examination reveals
some interesting differences, The knife is of the LF&C design in every
aspect except it doesn’t have the LF&C 1918 small casting under the US
1918 in the handle. Close study shows it never did have the writing cast into
the handle, not that it has been filed in over time. The LF&C it does have
in it is hand stamped as can be seen by the uneven and off center placement.
On the reverse of the handle in the same stamping font is HQ 155 MG again hand
stamped. The blade is typical of the LF&C made knives showing the same
ricasso design they have as typical. Overall other then the markings this is a
typical LF&C made M1918 MK1.
Next we come to the scabbard, unusual but just another home made item?
Looking closely at it we find it is extremely well made, as if factory made.
The scabbard body is a pressed steel much like the Krag bayonet scabbard but
with a different body taper and ball end. The throat is combined with the
upper frog on a swivel just like the Krag piece. The frog itself is made from
the same pancake flipper or spatula if you will as the OSS scabbard. The
cutout for the rubber o-ring is missing as it would serve no purpose on this
model knife. The frog is attached via two large rivets through the spatula to
a steel hangar clipped to the scabbard body swivel. As we stated a very well
made piece, much more then a common backyard engineering project. There is
also a stamping on the frog, the marking is EXP 4-43 again hand stamped. So
what do you suppose we have here? By April 1943 the US was producing the M3
for the Army but thought was earlier to reproduce the M1918 MK 1 or actually
put it back into production again. The idea was nixed as the amount of brass
it used was not good for the war effort, the brass was needed for other items.
Was this an attempt by LF&C to sell the knives commercially or perhaps
submitted to the government as a knife to re-standardize with an updated
scabbard made partially like two previously adopted scabbards. Perhaps the
scabbard is the only experimental part of the duo, made to fit the 139,000
M1918 Mk1 knives then in the hands of the military. The earlier tin scabbard
of the WW I design was certainly dated and hard to use, this would eliminate
that problem and hold the knives in place very well. We just don’t have an
answer on this one, perhaps you do? We would love to hear some opinions on
this subject, anyone???
USMC = United Shoe Machinery Company
Every so often an odd implement turns up with USMC stamped on it
and a question arises, just what is it. Many of the tools are very old and
look to be of very good quality. This is a question that often repeats itself
as the USMC logo is fairly well known even in other countries. The Marines
have a solid lock on the famous initials but they are not the only ones with
them. The United Shoe Machinery Company also uses the USMC letters in their
company logo. Albeit a stylized version it is often mistaken for the Marine
Corps. Pictured below are two tools that have been mistaken for Marine Corps
items, they are leather worker and shoe repair items. Founded in 1899 by a
merger of the supposedly non-competing Goodyear Machinery Company,
Consolidated Hand Lasting Machine Company, and McKay Shoe Machinery Company,
United Shoe Machinery Company, as it was then known, revolutionized shoe
equipment manufacturing and the shoe industry itself. Its establishment of an
international division made it one of the first three international companies
ever formed, and it became a worldwide powerhouse as affiliated companies were
set up in the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Canada, South America, and Asia
by 1905. The new company became United Shoe Machinery Corporation on May 1,
1905. The company held a monopoly on shoe making equipment through various
patents that allowed the company to lease the equipment and receive
compensation as a royalty on the number of shoes made. It became a blue chip
company to invest in. They built the first Boston skyscraper and leased the
smallest of hand tools, the items we run into now and again. The Cummings
Historical Society has purchased some of the property of USMC and returned it
to it’s former state. The machinery on display has the stylized logo as
proof of the ownership by USMC. So here we have it, not United States Marine
Corps equipment, United Shoe Machinery Company items.
05 / 2004
We are a little short and a little late this month, maybe it is just the nice
weather...
Quote:
[Letter from Geo. McClellan, Capt. 1st Cav., to Jefferson
Davis, Secretary of War, Oct. 3, 1856,]
I would like to call the attention of the Secretary to the sabres
furnished to our Cavalry; they are not what they ought to be…Ours are too
heavy and badly balanced So bad are they that many of our Cavalry officers are
disposed to regard the sabre as an useless weapon…A wooden, leather, or
gutta percha scabbard would also present great advantages—as being much
lighter than the steel one, allowing the sabre to be kept sharp (and if dull
it is of but little more service than a broom handle), and preventing, to a
very great degree, the noise attendant upon the movements of cavalry.
U.S. Military Knives, Bayonets and Machetes
This month we have included a quick list of US Military Knives, Bayonets
and Machetes to the mix. This is a list we started on a few weeks ago and have
added to it from the opinions of a few good friends. Some are obvious
to the list and others look out of place. We hope to add to this list over time
to keep a database of models and manufacturers that is easy to access. If you
see something of if you don't see something here please let us know so it can
be added. After this month it will have it's own page that can be easily
connected to for future reference. We really hope to expand the list over time
to add all manufacturers and variations that are known as well as unknowns. So
we ask again, if you see something missing please contact us so we can add to
the list.
Knives
Naval Dirks
Hicks Knife
1849 Riflemans Knife
Ames
D Guard Bowies
Model of 1880 Hunting Knife
Springfield Armory
Iron Guard
Brass Guard
Model of 1890 Intrenching Knife
Springfield Armory
Model of 1887 Hospital Corps Knife
Springfield Armory
Model of 1905 Hospital Corps Knife
Springfield Armory
Model of 1909 Bolo Knife
Collins & Co.
Fayette R. Plumb
Springfield Armory
Model of 1910 Bolo Knife
Springfield Armory
Model of 1917 Bolo Knife
Fayette R. Plumb
Model of 1917 C.T. Bolo Knife
American Cutlery Co.
Fayette R. Plumb
Model of 1917 Trench Knife
American Cutlery Co.
Henry Disston & Sons
Oneida Community Ltd.
Model of 1918 Trench Knife
Landers, Frary & Clark
7 point
8 point
Model of 1918 Mk1 Trench Knife
AuLion (France)
Henry Disston & Sons
Landers, Frary & Clark
Oneida Community Ltd
A.A. Simmons & Sons
U.S.N. Mk5 Deep Divers Knife
Batteryless Telephone Equipment Co.
Bomar
Craftsweld
John Date
DESCO
Fischer Spring Works
Morse
A.Schrader & Son
Union Cutlery Co.
Vince
Wenoka
U.S.M.C. Hospital Corpsman Knife
Briddell
Chatillion
Clyde Cutlery Co.
Fayette R. Plumb
Village Blacksmith
Fairbairn / Sykes
J. Clarke & Sons
William Rodgers
Wilkinson Sword
Geo, Wostenholm & Son
O.S.S. Stiletto
Landers, Frary & Clark
U.S.M.C. Raider Stiletto
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Camillus Air Corps Knife
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Curved stamping
Straight line stamping
Case V-42 Stiletto
W.R. Case & Sons
Western Parachutist Knife
Western States Cutlery Co.
Western "Shark" Knife
Western States Cutlery Co.
Western G46-8
Western States Cutlery Co.
Western L-76 Stiletto
Western States Cutlery Co.
Western L-77 Stiletto
Western States Cutlery Co.
U.S.N. Mark 1
Henry Boker & Co.
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Colonial Knife Co.
Geneva Forge Inc.
PAL Blade Co.
Robeson Shuredge
Union Cutlery Co.
Western States Cutlery Co.
U.S.N. Mark 2 / U.S.M.C. 1219C2 Fighting Utility knife
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Conetta
M.S.I.
Ontario Knife Co.
PAL Blade Co.
Robeson Shuredge
Union Cutlery Co.
Utica Cutlery
"Q" Knives
Cattaraugus Cutlery Co.
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery
6 Inch Hunting Knives
Case
Robeson
Queen
Pal
EGW
Ka-Bar
Kinfolks
Milpar
Williams
Case Stiletto
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery
Case "Pigsticker"
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery
M3 TRENCH KNIFE
Aerial Cutlery Manufacturing Co.
Henry Boker & Co.
Camillus Cutlery Co.
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
Imperial Knife Co.
Pal Blade Co.
Kinfolks Inc.
Robeson Shuredge
Utica Cutlery Co.
Parachute Canopy Line Cutters
Schrade Walden
Aerial Machine & Tool
SAC Survival Knife MIL-K-4988
Boker 155
Pilot Survival Knife
Imperial Knife Co.
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Schrade Walden Knife Co.
Jet Pilot Survival Knife
Marbles
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Milpar Col.
Ontario Knife Co.
Utica Cutlery Co.
O.S.S. Smatchet
Imperial Knife Co.
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
O.S.S. Fairsword
O.S.S. Machine Shop
Special Forces "SOG" Knife
Japan Sword
Yogi Shokai (Nichimen Corp sub contracted)
Gerber Mark II
Gerber Legendary Blades
Hackman / Garcia Knife
Hackman
Garcia
U.S.N. Non-Magnetic Knife
Imperial Knife Co.
Alton Iron Works Inc.
Lawndale Forging & Tool Works
Floating Raft Knife
Western States Cutlery Manufacturing Co.
U.S.N. Mark 3 Mod. O
Ontario Knife Co.
Mad Dog Knife
ATAK
Mission Knives
MPK
M11
Lan-Cay Inc.
CQB
Camillus Cutlery Co.
BK2SG
Camillus Cutlery Co.
BK3SG
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Gung Ho 1st Bn. 21st Marines knife
"Aussie" Knives
East Bros
Gold Seal (Scabbards only ?)
Greg Steel
MARS
Marsden
Whittingslowe
"Drop Knives"
Custom Knives
Anaconda Copper
Baker
Barteaux
Baxter
Merrill Brown
M.H. Cole
Delta Knife
E.D.M.F.
Ek
Everitt
Taylor Huff
Kennedy Arms
Kiffe
Marine Recon
Messenger
Moore
Murphy
Nguyen Dan
Nichols
Parsons
Pugh
Randall
Richtig
Rocklin
Ruana
Scagel
E.W. Stone
Warther
Woroneicki
Langbein
Langbein
C. Langbein
Tru-Bal
Bowie
Sword Knives
Knife Crafters
Anderson
San Antonio Iron Works
"Ranger" Knife
Large Brass
Small Brass
C.U.K.
Phrobis
Bayonets
Sockets
Committee of Safety
Brown Bess
M1795
M1798
M1808
M1812
M1814
M1816
M1817
M1819 (Hall)
M1830 Cadet
M1835
M1842
M1838 Jenks Navy
M1840 Musicians
M1841 Mississippi
M1847 Musketoon
M1849 Augustin Jager / Austrian
M1851 Cadet
M1853 Enfield
M1854 Remington
M1854 Austrian Lorenz
M1855/70
M1855
M1855 Cadet
M1858 Cadet
M1861
Fayetteville Armory
Richmond Rifle
M1862 H&P Conversion
M1869/69 Cadet
M1871
M1873
M1873 Cadet
M1882 Lee
Palmetto Armory M1852
M1855 Colt
M1860 Spencer
M1861 Blunt
Hall Confederate Rifle
M1861 P.S. Justice
Greene Breech Loader
M1863 Sharps
M1866 Winchester
M1873 Winchester
Sharps Borchardt Rifle
Moisin-Nagant M1891
M1892 Winchester
M1941 Johnson
Ramrods
M1833 Hall – North
M1834 Hall
M1837 Hall
M1873
M1880
M1882
M1884
M1889
M1891 Bruce Rifle
M1901
M1903
Sword Bayonets
M1841 Mississippi
M1847 Musketoon
M1855
M1855 Colt
M1856 Enfield
M1861 Dahlgren
Boyle Gamble & Macfee
Cook & Brother
Fayetteville Armory
M1862 Remington
M1870 USN
M1853/55 Sharps Carbine
M1860 Sharps
Bown & Tetley
M1860 Henry
M1861 Cosmopolitan
M1861 Leman Rifle
M1861 P.S. Justice
M1861 Schalk
M1861 A. Rein
Georgia State Arsenal
Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner
Tolle & Degenhardt
Schemann Rifle
M1862 Merrill Army
M1862 Merrill Navy
M1863 Spencer Navy
M1863 Sharps & Hankins
M1863 Schreiber
Joslyn
M1866 Winchester
M1871 English Elcho
M1873 Winchester
M1842 Musket
M1862 Joslyn
M1861 Collins
Fencing / Practice
M1858 Fencing
M1906 Fencing
M1909 Fencing
M1912 Fencing
USN Mk1
Intrenching
M1868 Trowel
M1869 Trowel
M1872 Trowel
M1873 Trowel
1865 Trowel
1873 Intrenching
M1874 Sergeants
M1874 Enlisted
1875 Intrenching Knife
Lyford Pattern Intrenching
1878 Intrenching Knife
Knife Bayonets
M1861 Dahlgren
M1889
M1892
M1895 Lee
Winchester
M1896 Cadet
M1899 Savage
M1900 Krag Bowie
M1903 Silencer
M1905
Springfield Armory
Rock Island Arsenal
American Fork & Hoe
Oneida Community Ltd.
Pal Tool & Blade Co.
Union Fork & Hoe
Utica Cutlery Co.
Wilde Tool
Sedgley
M1917
Remington Arms Co.
Winchester Repeating Arms Co.
M1921
M1
American Fork & Hoe
Oneida Community Ltd.
Pal Tool & Blade Co.
Union Fork & Hoe
Utica Cutlery Co.
M4
Aerial Cutlery Co.
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial Knife Co.
Kinfolks Inc.
Pal Blade & Tool Co.
Utica Cutlery Co.
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.
M4 Second Generation
Bren-Dan Inc.
Conetta Inc.
Imperial Knife Co.
Turner Mfg. Co.
M5
Aerial
J&D Tool Co.
Imperial Knife Co.
Utica Cutlery Co.
M5A1
Aerial Cutlery Co
J&D Tool Co.
Imperial Knife Co.
Columbus Milpar & Co.
M6
Aerial Cutlery Co.
AN
Columbus Milpar
Imperial Knife Co.
M7
Colt
Bauer Ordnance Corp.
Conetta Inc.
Columbus Milpar
Frazier Mfg. Co.
Imperial Knife Co.
General Cutlery Co.
Ontario Knife Co.
M9
Buck
Lan-Cay
Ontario Knife Co.
Phrobis
Potts
Leech & Rigdon
Ross
M1861 Borun
M1895 Winchester
FN-FAL
Bolo
M1902 Krag
M1905
M1909
M1912
M1915
Machetes
Collins HCM
1862
1875
Collins No. 22
Collins No. 127
Collins No. 37
Collins No. 1005
Collins No. 87
Collins No. 18
Collins No. 157
Collins No. 128
Collins No. 623
Collins No. 85
Collins No. 23
Collins No. 35
Collins No. 460
Collins No. 706
Collins No. 1253
Collins No. 1255
USMC Intrenching Machete
M1939
M1942
USN MK 1
USN MK 2
USN 20" Collins No. 30
USMC Collins No. 191
Folding Machetes
Case V-44
USAF / USAAF Aluminum Handles
Philippine US Spring & Bumper
LINCLOE
SOG
LC-14B
Survival Ax Type IV
Barteaux
Pocket Knives
Jack Knife
Rope Knives
Signal Corps
Doctors Knife
Red Cross Knife
TL-29
Camillus Cutlery Co.
E-Z Opener
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Engineers
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial
MD-USN
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Kutmaster
Wards
USMC 4 Blade
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial
3 Blade Utility
2 Blade Utility
WWII Era Coast Guard Approved Life Boat Knife
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial
Kutmaster
Fish Knife
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Marline Spike
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Mountain
Ulster Knife Co.
Escape Knife
Joseph Rodgers & Sons
Lock Pick Knife
Ulster Knife Co.
M2
Geo Schrade
Schrade Walden
Giant Jack Knife
Colonial Cutlery Co.
United Machine & Tool Co.
MD-USN 3 Blade
Camillus Cutlery Co.
3 Blade Stockman
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial
Kingston
Kutmaster
Ontario Knife Co.
Queen Cutlery Co.
MIL-K
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Imperial
Kingston
Queen Cutlery Co.
Schrade
Stevenson
Ulster
MC-1
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Schrade / Walden
Logan / Smyth
Serpentine Jack (SRU-16/P)
C4 Demolition Knife
Camillus Cutlery Co.
Black Knife
Ox Forge
A-F Combat Folding Knife
Gerber
Benchmade
Multi-tools
Gerber
Kershaw
Leatherman
SOG
Red Cross Knife
United Shoe Machinery Company.
How about this for timeliness, just last month we featured a small write-up
on the other USMC and a few days later we receive the American Rifleman and see
a question about USMC markings in the "Ask the Experts" section. Our
good friend Bruce Canfield explains the "other" USMC markings so we
can see that are not just getting to knife collectors...
Marine M1917? Not!
Q I recently purchased an M1917 Enfield rifle with "U.S.M.C."
markings on the bolt. I was not aware of Marine Corps-marked M1917 rifles and
assume this is a rather rare variant. Can you give me some information on
these U.S. Marine Corps-issue M1917 rifles?
A Actually, you do not have a "Marine Corps-issue" U.S. M1917
rifle. While it is a logical assumption, the "U.S.M.C" marking on
the bolt of your rifle does not signify "U.S. Marine Corps." Rather,
it means "United Shoe Machinery Company." The United Shoe Machinery
Company of Beverly, Mass., manufactured replacement bolts for the M1917 rifle
under government contract during WWII. Many of these bolts were used for
overhaul and replacement purposes. The presence of "U.S.M.C."-marked
bolt is indicative of a M1917 rifle that has been arsenal rebuilt and has no
connection with the U.S. Marine Corps.—Bruce N. Canfield
Thanks Bruce, a great answer to the often asked USMC question.
Code Talkers
Did you know...
A bill has been introduced in the House to present gold medals to the
Meskwaki Code Talkers. The measure recognizes more than two dozen tribal
members for their contributions during World War II.
In January 1941, one year prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, 27
Meskwaki enlisted in the U.S. Army. Once the war started, eight of the
American Indians were sent to North Africa, where they directed artillery fire
against German forces in their native tongue.
Indians from 17 other tribes also were code talkers during the war, and
Congress has been rushing of late to honor their accomplishments.
With the World War Two Memorial just getting opened it seems about time to
thank all our folks of that era... just seems too little, too late.
Quote
Under the terrible stresses of war, there are some in every country who commit
atrocities. The difference is that Americans are upset, ashamed, or angry when
their troops do it, while people in some Middle Eastern countries danced in
the streets on 9/11 and when the bodies of dead American civilians were
dragged through the streets in Iraq.
Thomas Sowell
May, 2004
Update June 6, 2004
How can we thank those young men enough? After 60 years the US WW II Memorial
was built in Washington, D.C. to honor this generation. Sadly even many who
survived that day did not live long enough to see it. My father was one on them.
He was a Navy Amphibian, his crew was awarded the Naval Unit Citation that day.
He spoke of the landing to me often but never about what happened later that
day. After the beaching he was assigned to an LST that was used as a hospital
ship to return to England after unloading the war supplies. They made three
crossings of the channel, the last one the ship hit a mine and the stern was
blown off. More friends lost and the ship sunk in shallow water. It was
re-floated and towed back to England to be rebuilt. I think the most profound
memorial of that day lies at the top of the beach, a real place of honor, the
American Military Cemetery, my father thought so too.
Hollow Handled Parsons
Have you ever seen a Parsons Hollow handled knife, we haven’t either…
until now. The photos of this specimen was sent to us by a fellow who saw the
knife on eBay. We couldn’t answer any questions on it for him but instead were
posing a few of our own. Was this knife made by the same Kevin Parsons who made
the knuckle knives in the Vietnam era? We don’t know. The long sweeping clip
point blade resembles the knives made with the knuckle handles. We have not seen
one with any etching on the blade as the one described in the auction was but it
looks like a real quality piece none the less. The seller described it as
"8 1/2 inch clip point blade - 1/4 inch thick at the guard. Blade has most
of the original polish left - with just a few little scratches and couple small
stains. Ricasso is etched: PARSONS (and stamped with the #11.) I believe the
heavy cross guard is nickel silver - and a checkered steel tube forms the handle
(crossguard is welded? or soldered? to the tube handle). The hollow space inside
the tube measures 3 1/2 inches. Heavy threaded steel buttcap with rubber O ring.
Length from guard to end of but cap is about 5 3/8 inches. Heavy duty leather
sheath - unmarked - looks like it has been carried - and is in great shape"
Would love to examine this one up close. Does anyone know of any others out
there in the collecting world? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Quick Fact
Did you know the word sword is used 380 times in the King James version of
the Bible.
Seems some thing never change…
"The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled.
Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of officials should be tempered and
controlled and assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest we become
bankrupt. The people should be forced to work and not depend on the government
for subsistence."
Cicero, 78 A.D.
The Paratrooper That Never Was
In a recent exchange of mail with Camillus Cutlery Co. Historian Tom Williams
we learned of a prototype knife built by Camillus in 1943 for the Army
Paratroopers but never adopted. The knife was a large folder built along the
lines of the Giant Jack knife. The knife had a large spear point blade and a saw
along with a third blade, a dagger. The knife was built for test purposes but
none remain at the Camillus factory collection for us to observe. All we have
left is the drawing of the knife that Tom has sent to us for display here. The
first drawing is an exploded view of the folder with all the blades extended to
show the features of the knife. The second picture is a scan of the drawing
listed on the back side of the production card showing the back springs of the
knife and the materials used in production. The knife is a very large knife,
over 6 inches in the folded position. The width is 1 and 1/16 inches. The length
of the bolster alone is 7/8 of an inch made from 9 ga. Steel. The length of the
cutting edge of the main spear point blade was 4 and 1/8 inch while the dagger
was 4 and 3/16 of an inch. The main blade was made from 10 ga. steel, the saw
blade was 18 ga. and the dagger was 13 ga. steel. Quite a large and stout
folding knife. The knife was to be made from all steel to save on critical
material such as brass while the handle slabs were to be wood. All the steel was
either blued or Parkerized to provide a dark shine proof finish. In typical
Camillus fashion the cutting blades were to be buffed. Even though a high gloss
finish was not needed this step would not be eliminated nor quality of
workmanship be cut. The finish on the saw blade was a glazed finish along with
the rear or backs of the springs. The dagger blade would be held open via a
locking liner just like the TL-29 or a Giant Jack Knife. Actually it would be
quite an impressive folding knife. What even became of the testing or paperwork
for it is unknown at this time. It is on the list for follow-up for sure, this
is quite a good discovery and we are pleased to cover it here on Knife Knotes.
Thanks to Tom Williams for bringing it to our attention!
Camillus Commercial / Military Knives Today.
As long as we are talking about Camillus and our good friend Tom Williams why
not cover the latest knives from Camillus. Tom sent us the knives in the
unassembled condition so we could photograph them for all to see. We get quite a
few questions on how the knives are made, so a photo being worth a thousand
words it will certainly same us some typing! The items we have are the Jet
Pilots knife, the Mark 2, the M3 Trench Knife, the M4 Bayonet and a 4 blade
MIL-K with both US and Canadian covers. Feast your eyes on the parts below.
Those Multi-tools
We have no doubt at all in our minds what is the most popular knife in the US
military today… the Multi-tool. It seems you can not go anywhere without
seeing this small pouch on a belt. Although the current camo uniform coat covers
the belt line just ask and a quick peek will reveal the pouch. Just last week we
had the good luck to spend some few days with a company of drives and mechanics
from a transportation unit and almost to a man they each wore a Gerber
Multi-tool. The majority carried a small flashlight with the tool via a loop on
the cordura pouch. These tools were in constant use on and off during the day so
we had the chance to observe many on them. From all reports from the field we
receive it is also one of the most asked about items. Those in fighting units
not close to the big PX will trade just about anything for one. And they are not
just belt hangers, many a story has been related to us on what broke and why. In
just about every case it was from abuse by the user but in the end it got the
fellow out of the jam he was in. Lay it down and it will be gone, now that is
quite a compliment to any knife! The majority we have seen are Gerber made but a
close second are the Leatherman products. A few of this and that, here and there
but for the most part those are the big two.
The Second Most Popular
Right after the Multi-tool is still the old leather handled Mark 2. Seeing it
on a belt you can tell what it is from the distinct form of the bottom of the
scabbard sticking out. The government is still ordering them in large numbers
and the provider is still Ontario. What is funny is that they order them while
other branches put them up for sale at the DRMO website. A classic case of the
left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. We just had the chance to
purchase a few that were surplused out from the 3d Marines in Okinawa. Dated on
the packaging, 1986, 87 and 88 they are the exact same item Ontario makes and
sells today. Perhaps they have a shelf life in the current specification? In a
separate purchase we recently picked up a Camillus that was packed in 1987. In
any case we thought it lucky to find a few that were still in the wrap and dated
so we picked them up. To those lucky enough to be issued a knife, primarily
those without a rifle which would get a bayonet, it is the current black knife
and scabbard from Ontario (also see below). To those who have to purchase their
own it is a division along branch lines. The Army men traditionally go for the
all black knife while the enlisted Marines choose the brown leather model with
the EGA imprinted into the scabbard. Not all mind you just from those we have
observed and spoke with. It is easy to understand why. And again we stress, it
is far and away the most common fixed blade knife we see being worn today.
What is it Worth?
We see this question everyday whether on some forum, through e-mail or snail
mail. In many cases there is very little information along with the question
such as "I have a knife that was my grandfathers he used in the war. How
much is it worth?" Sometimes we have a little more information such as
"he was in the army" or "it is a bayonet that you can hook to a
gun". Any of these questions are impossible to answer. On the really vague
ones they usually don’t even give a name to reply with, no "Dear
Sir" or god forbid a "thank you". These folks just want a price
so they don’t get "ripped off" at a flea market or on ebay when they
sell the product. They aren’t collectors who want to learn about the item they
just want quick information. Those requests we disregard outright in most cases.
Just by doing a simple search on yahoo or google that answer will often be
found. A search on eBay will also produce results the writer is looking for but
that would be wasting their time to do so. It is alright to waste our time but
not those who seek instant gratification. We are always eager to help those who
have at least tried to find some information on the possession such as the
simple searches. Sharing of information is what this whole website is about,
just don’t ask us to do your rudimentary work for you on a common easy to find
answer when you can’t or won’t commit the time to do it yourself.
Named Theatre Knives
We have been picking up Theatre handled knives for a few years now and often
wonder at the work performed on these knives. Most found are anonymous lacking
and information on them while a few will have scabbard markings to give some
hint of where they have been or who they were with. We love it whan one turns up
with markings that can place the knife to a certain place or person. Here we
have a knife that came from the Bob Tronolone collection now owned by our good
friend "Gunbarrel" that exhibits some of that history. A Theatre
converted or altered knife having the name of the ship in the handle, the USS
Iowa. A neat piece of history to spice up a collection of Navy knives.
Quote:
"When our troops are putting their lives on the line for this
country, thousands of miles away, surely it is not too much to ask of the rest
of us back home to act like adults and put things in perspective -- even during
an election year. That includes the media. Sometimes the fourth estate seems
more like a fifth column." --Thomas Sowell
Peloza Brothers
Mike and Vince Peloza are at it again, this time with some great scabbards.
In response to an e-mail the brothers put together a scabbard system for the
MOLLE vest that is a dynamite design. Here is a portion of a letter we received
from them:
Custom Leather Sheath
for
Modular Lightweight Load Carrying Equipment Vest (MOLLE Vest)
"A Field Request"
I wanted to pass on a story to you to show you what kind of far-reaching
impact your Site has on two little known knife maker’s like M&V Knives.
A couple of months ago I received an email from an Army Colonel recovering
from wounds received in Iraq. He had seen an article about our knives on your
web site. He wasn’t interested in a knife just a sheath and wanted to know if
we did our own sheath work. I told him we did and indicated we would be glad to
do what we could for him.
The new Modular Lightweight Load Carrying Equipment {MOLLE) Vest used by our
war fighters today is equipped with a series of 1" straps to which just
about any piece of equipment can be attached with the exception of a leather
knife sheath. There is an adapter, a sleeve of shorts, referred to as the KA-BAR
Adapter and a cloth pouch with a sheath sewn into it but that’s about it.
The Colonel’s personal carry was an old Ontario survival knife given to him
by a Sergeant Major when he was a Company Commander preparing his unit for
deployment to Honduras. He said it wasn’t much in terms of a knife but it
meant a lot to him and he needed a leather sheath that could be used on a MOLLE
Vest. He told us what he thought would work and said he would send us a
cardboard example. Sure enough we received a package in the mail with a template
made out of an old file folder and some nylon straps.
Vince and I kicked around the idea for a few days, decided we actually needed
a knife, ordered a Desert Tan Camillus (we’re always trying to justify the
purchase of another knife) and then Vince finally went to work on it on a day
that he was rained out.
What he did was outfit the back of the sheath with a vertical strap that
could be woven through the horizontal straps on the MOLLE Vest. You know what
they say about a picture being worth a thousand words so I’ve attached a few
so you can see what I’ve been talking about.
Regards,
Mike & Vince Peloza
M&V Knives
421 McClain Road
Enon Valley, PA 16120
As Mike says a picture is worth a thousand words so here are a lot of
pictures to save all the typing again.
A Touch of Humor
Three strangers strike up a conversation in the airport in Bozeman Montana,
awaiting their flights. One is a Sioux Indian from Lame Deer. Another is a
Cowboy on his way to Billings for a rodeo. The third is a fundamentalist Arab
student, newly arrived at Montana State University. Their discussion drifts to
their cultures. Soon, the two Westerners learn that the Arab is a devout,
radical Muslim and the conversation falls into an uneasy lull.
The cowboy leans back in his chair, crosses his boots on a table and tips his
sweat-stained hat over his face. After a long silence, the Indian clears his
throat and speaks, "At one time, my people were many, but sadly, now we are
few." The Muslim student raises an eyebrow and leans forward, "Once my
people were few," he sneers, "and now we are many. Why do you suppose
that is?" The Montana cowboy shifts his toothpick to one side of his mouth
and from the darkness beneath his Stetson says in a drawl, "That's 'cause
we ain't played Cowboys and Muslims yet, but I do believe it's comin'
A Real Long Scabbard
Here is an item we have not seen in print before and never seen in person.
The Model of 1913 Saber Carrier. This is the leather attachment that held the
saber to the horse saddle. Both models are described in the Cavalry Equipment
Model of 1912 Description and Direction Manual. The photos shown below are the
plates used in the manual for both the officers model and the service model.
Both were made of medium harness leather and held the saber firmly to the saddle
not the soldier. The officers model was for the bright steel scabbard only to be
used in garrison duty, the regular service scabbard would be used by officers
and enlisted men in field duty. Bright metal was to be avoided in actual combat
so the bright scabbard was to be left behind. Another interesting tidbit was the
sword knot that is generally never seen with these sabers. The function of the
sword knot is not for decoration, it is to secure the saber to the scabbard when
the rider dismounts and leave the horse while in action. As the horse may run
from the sound of gunfire the saber will not be lost in this event. The saber
carrier was designed with a swivel like that of the M1911 pistol holster to make
removing the saber and orientation towards the trooper easier. The enlisted
carrier also held the intrenching tool in a slot designed for this purpose. So
as we already knew the M1913 saber was not designed to be carried by the man,
this shows how it is properly carried.
And with that we give you…
"The saber is solely a weapon of offense and is used in conjunction
with the other offensive weapon, the horse. In all the training, the idea of
speed must be conserved. No direct parries are taught, because at the completion
of the parry, the enemy is already beyond reach of an attack. The surest parry
is a disabled opponent. In the charge and in the melee, the trooper must
remember that on the speed of his horse in attack, and on his own offensive
spirit, rest nine-tenths of his chances of success".
Saber Exercise, 1914, G.S. Patton
Ek Knives Ride Again
We just received a splendid catalog from the Ek Knives folks in Richmond Va.
They are once again in production of the famous fighting knives. Along with the
regular production knives they will also make a special custom Ek at the Custom
shop they have. Along with all this there are also commemorative Ek knives
available. The long heritage of the Ek knife, started in World War Two is
carried over into this new line of knives. The traditional Model 1 and 2 are
still available as are some newer knives such as the bowie blade and Ek skinning
/ hunter knives. Grips are still the proven paracord wrap or the Micarta with X
head brass fasteners. The Micarta grips feature the same contour that John Ek
first provided on his early WW II fighters made from wood. With the newer
materials and the easy to remove or tighten fasteners the hard gripped model is
hard to beat. The blades are made from a high carbon stainless steel, HSC1718
and hardened to a Rockwell of 57 to 59. Check them out at: Ek Commando Knives,
601 N. Lombardy St. Richmond, Va. 23220 or Phone 804-257-7144.
Quote:
"He has loosed the fateful lightening of his terrible swift sword."
Verse from the Battle Hymn of the Republic
Black Ka-Bars
Back in 2003 we wrote about some official issue Ka-bars that we thought were
just another round of private purchase knives just misidentified at official
issue. Well we recently heard from our West Coast good friend Rich Sams with
some interesting information. It seems Rich may have found what appears to be a
Black Ka-bar that was issued and used in Iraq.
According to Rich: I was reviewing your previous 2003 Knife Knotes which
included an item about an 'errant report' that Kabar was supplying fighting
knives to the military. It appears that the report may not have been in error.
Our friend who is a USMC EOD officer recently back from Iraq advises that when
he went to their supply point to pick up a new knife to replace his issued M-11,
he was offered a choice: A Conetta marked Mark 2 or a genuine Kabar in a black
leather sheath.
Although he is EOD, he has no clue about knives other than how to use one. Of
course, hearing this very interesting information, we asked him to elaborate on
the story feeling that he must have mis-spoken and that the knives in question
were actually Camillus or Ontario.
He advised that his supply person allowed him to view the bins from which the
knives were being issued. One bin was full of brown Conetta marked Mark 2 knives
in brown leather sheaths, brand new. We must be scraping the bottom of the
supply barrel to be able to churn up that many unissued Conettas this late in
the game.
The next bin contained brand new black Kabar marked Mark 2 knives in black
leather sheaths. My question was if they might have been PX knives for sale to
the troops. He advised that they were being issued right out of stock and that
anyone could have a choice of either a brown knife or a black one. Needless to
say, the genuine KaBars were likely to be very popular.
He explained that the Kabars were much heavier duty than the Conettas and the
handles are coated with some type of black sealant that is very durable. He also
sent photos of his Kabar as issued as proof.
You will notice in the photos of the knife from Iraq that the sheath is riveted
and that the black dipped leather grip does not appear to have the black plastic
spacers. The thick pommel still seems to have the pin driven in a blind hole
from one side as do all of the current 'repro' Kabars.
So it seems we have a link, albeit hearsay, that the black Ka-bars are being
issued to Marines in Iraq. The knife is unlike any made for the commercial
market that we know of lacking the black plastic spacer. The coating on the
handle is similar to that used on the Vietnam era knives being a dipped process
to coat the leather. More information is needed on this area to provide the
facts of the case. Does anyone know if these Ka-bars were purchased by the
government in a contract built to the latest MIL-K-20277 specifications? Can we
get any documentation on this? Your input would be greatly appreciated. An
e-mail sent to Tara Troutman-Warner at Ka-Bar crushed the hope that Ka-bar was
back in the supply business. Ka-bar Knives has not had any government
contracts on the 1219C2 knife since World War Two. So with that established as
proof they did not come from the factory, just where did they come from? Was it
a private purchase or a credit card purchase of knives from a dealer? Lots of
questions but a little short on the answer side so far.
September 2004
Well summer is almost over and we have to force ourselves back to the
keyboard again. We have read quite a few books and collected a good bit of
information to study during those cold coming months. Tomatoes, Corn, Cucumbers
coming out of our ears but picked fresh from the garden right off the stalk can’t
be beat. If we missed returning an e-mail to you we apologize for it, we really
did try to stay away from it for awhile to rest up. We started writing Knife
Knotes quite a few years ago as a way to keep all of our records straight and in
one place. We are not fond of extra work but it seemed like a way to do the
above with a minimum of trouble. Since that time it has changed quite a bit. It
now runs like a continuing serial of off topic events and run-along thoughts all
based on the military edge. As can be seen I quote quite a bit from our many
correspondents on many topics some who do not want to be named and others
willing to be associated with us (God knows why) on the collecting of military
blades. In this day and age when most would rather look at pictures then read
the written word it is exciting to keep up the work of the underdog for those
who appreciate it. When all is said and done we write for ourselves first and
foremost. As it continues to be fun we shall keep at it again for another year
and many more we hope.
The Crisis
By Rob S. Rice
In these dull dreary days the truly brave man knows
That steel, true steel, is tempered by blows.
Fools sneer and deride, let them cheer for our foes
So much harder steel that they temper with blows.
Honor is eternal, though fools disregard
The tests they despise, or consider 'too hard.'
Or in scheming for power they chatter, like crows,
But steel, true steel, is still tempered by blows.
We face scheming murderers with calm defiance.
They have soulless evil, we have self-reliance.
They butcher civilians, their cruelty shows.
Our steel, true steel, is tempered by blows.
Let them come and dare face us, or run, if they choose.
In battle or treachery, the wicked shall lose.
For the acts of their madness are in truth their death throes.
They'll die on our steel that they've tempered, with blows.
Camillus Production Figures
Ever wonder what the number one highest ranking production figure knife made
by Camillus is? Well wonder no more, it is the trusty little MIL-K we all know
and love. The MIL-K-818 is the number one largest production run knife made.
Camillus labels the knife as their pattern #1760 it is made in all stainless
steel. The knife has exceeded 13,000,000 pieces sold, that right thirteen
million knives sold. If that weren’t enough how about the number two knife
from Camillus… the TL-29 electricians knife. Pretty cool to have the top two
being military knives although the TL-29 has a very large cross over to the
commercial world today. The smallest production figure… a toss up between the
timber scribe and the MC-1 parachutist knives. Hows that for coverage, number 1
and deal last. All the facts and figures were provided by our good friend Tom
Williams of Camillus Cutlery, Thanks Tom!
Pilot's Survival Rescue Knife
This knife is specifically designed for cutting aircraft seat belts and
harnesses. J-style knife has an aluminum alloy handle and two interchangeable
carbon steel blades. Tip is fitted with a Dzus key for unfastening the aircraft
type quick connect fittings. The knife cuts 10,000-lb strength webbing with
ease, just a tug on the tee handle and away it goes. The knife is really not for
crashes as many might assume, it is for a jumpmaster or cargo loadmaster to cut
away the static line in case of a person or some cargo that has a malfunction
with the parachute. This is to prevent the jumper or load to be drug by the
airplane out in the air. If it is a person jumping then they would resort to the
back up chute on the chest, if it were a load it would come to earth very fast
without the benefit of a chute at all. Here are a few photos sent to us of an
original example in it’s original packaging.
MC-1 is NSN 5110-526-8740
The Star on the Sword Blade Again.
After writing about it quite a few times we are still asked by many why is
there a six-pointed star like the Star of David on the U.S. sword blades? So
far, in addition to what we have already written about it, we can tell you it is
not a Star of David because it is geometrically different. The Star of David
does not consist of two triangles combined together, but rather two, separate,
interlocking triangles often when displayed in one-color designs, usually does
appear to be two triangles combined together but they are not.
We cannot absolutely confirm the history of the star yet although we are
still searching. What we do know is that the blade specifications for both the
U.S. and British military swords require the six-pointed star with the word
"Proved" etched on the blade. This is still part of the specifications
that the six-pointed "Proved" star is required in the etch to signify
that the blade meets the current military specs. What is silly to us is that it
has lost its meaning, since even replica swords intended only for mounting on
the wall incorrectly bear the symbol. The Persians were using this six-pointed
star hundreds of years before Christ. So perhaps to them it was a proof mark or
the mark of a certain smith known for his steel. So we still can’ tell you for
certain why it is there but we can tell you for certain it isn’t a Star of
David.
Hollow Handle Knives
Awhile back we reported on a hollow handle Parsons knife and wondered on
where it might have come from. Well of our readers answered the question quite
thoroughly. In and e-mail from Jon S. he pointed us in the direction of Ken
Warner’s book Knives 86 for the story on the hollow handles. We had read the
story but forgotten completely about it. Apparently Randy Phillips was making
and selling a lot of these hollow tube machine made handles to knife makers so
they could keep up with the "Rambo" trend. Below we have a photo of a
Dawson knife Jon purchased a few years ago with a Phillips handle. Barry Dawson
confirmed that the knife was made in the late 80's. This does not confirm where
or when the Parsons knife was made but it sure does narrow down the era when the
handles are compared. With Mr. Phillips making the handles in the 1980’s Rambo
era it rules out the Vietnam period of the earlier period Parsons knives. Thanks
to Jon for bringing this to our attention!
Government Auctions
Here is one we received from our good friend John Jacoby while stationed over
in the Big Sandbox. For those of you who don’t know it John is the founder of
the Bayonet Collectors Network or BCN as it is known by. John reports the
following to us:
On the third week of each month, hundreds of military surplus items including
computer monitors, machinery, automotive parts, furniture, tents and even
kitchen sinks located at Redstone Arsenal are available for online bidding.
"It's set up a lot like eBay," Keith Renfroe, site manager for
Government Liquidation, a contractor that specializes in selling government
surplus to the public, said. "We started the online bidding a little less
than two years ago. You can get some good deals but you have to know what you're
doing, especially when it comes to specialty items like aircraft
parts. You have to be a well-informed bidder." Government Liquidation
partners with the Department of Defense to handle surplus property that is not
reutilized by the government. For many years, the Defense Reutilization and
Marketing Office on Redstone handled disposal of all the surplus on post, but a
few years ago, they started working with a contractor to handle the items that
were eventually put up for public sale. "The property that comes to us is
first offered for reuse within the Department of Defense, transferred to other
federal agencies or donated to state and local governments," Bill Neppel,
property disposal specialist at Redstone's Defense Reutilization and Marketing
Service, said. "Property not reutilized, transferred or donated is then
offered to the public as surplus." Neppel's office gives title of the
public surplus to the contractor, Government Liquidation, who then chooses how
to group the items and what will be sold over the Internet. Eighty percent of
the sale proceeds, after expenses, come back to the U.S. Treasury. DRMO's web
site www.drms.dla.mil lists property for
reutilization but doesn't provide pictures of the items. Government Liquidation
puts photos and descriptions of public surplus on its web site, www.govliquidation.com,
along with all the conditions of sale. "We have to sell as is,"
Renfroe said. "Some things listed, like certain pieces of equipment, the
buyer has to have special authorization. You have to go through trade security
control for some vehicle demil sales. It will tell you right on the online
listing if you need special certification to purchase the item." Even
though photos are included in online listing of public sale items, merchandise
for both public sale and reutilization can be inspected in person at the
warehouses located on Redstone. The web site lists Redstone auction items as
well as inventory from several other DRMO regions. The next GL auction at
Redstone will be June 23. Bidders can pay online via credit card or by mail to
the contractor's office in Scottsdale, Ariz. Once payment has been rendered, an
e-mail will be sent to the buyer and Renfroe at the Redstone office. Then the
buyer can arrange to pick up the item or have it packed and shipped. "Here
in Huntsville we get the basic stuff, electronics, computers, furniture,
clothing, kitchen equipment, mechanical, aircraft parts. With the new dining
hall, we're getting truckloads of equipment from the old mess hall,"
Renfroe said. "But at some of our other sites, we've sold everything from
horses out of Texas to some presidential china at Fort Meade, Md." The
inventory for DRMO and Government Liquidation auctions change daily and include
thousands of items for reutilization and sale. In fiscal 2003 the DRMS managed
the reuse of nearly $1.5 billion worth of property and sold remaining eligible
property for more than $53 million in national and local sales. For more
information call Neppel at 876-3617 for reutilization; and Renfroe at 881-6134
for public sales.
Thanks John!!
Surplus M7 bayonets waiting for bids
Quote
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work."
--Thomas Edison
More on the Black "Issue" Ka-bar
We received a great detailed e-mail for a former USMC Armorer on the topic of
issue and supply. It seems the mixing of actual issue and or government
purchased items and strictly commercial items is a reality. Here we have it
straight from Michael C:
This email is in regards to your June 2004 closing article on Black Ka-Bars.
As a former Marine Armorer I can say that it is not too rare (but it is
uncommon) for a commercial Ka-Bar to make its way into the system. You see,
Ka-Bars and bayonets have a nasty way of getting lost when in the field. Instead
of facing a Page 11 entry, a Marine can "substitute" a commercial
Ka-Bar (or M7 bayonet) for an issue one. This usually is done on the down low,
but those who need to know do turn a blind eye to the situation. I personally
DRMO'd a commercial Ka-Bar when we had one (an issue Fighting Knife) that was
tagged for DRMO disappear. We needed to send DRMO a Ka-Bar, so a commercial
model was sent to avoid all the nasty paperwork. It was in fact a Ka-Bar just
like the one on your website. In fact, it is possible that it is the same one.
Now, as far as the "supply person" offered the EOD Marine a choice of
a "Knife, Fighting" or commercial Ka-Bar there is some gap filling
going on. The Ka-Bar is a controlled ordnance item. This means that the Fighting
Knife is only issued out in two ways: 1. Individual signs for the Knife on an
ECR (Equipment Custody Receipt) Card or 2. Has a 10520 Card for the knife. Now,
the "supply guy" in this case would be the unit Armorer.
When we pressed for further information is was forthcoming on the topic:
Ka-Bars, generally, are issued to any Marine that is issued an M9 Pistol, and
generally only SNCOs and Officers get M9 Pistols regardless of their MOS. As an
Armorer I rate the issue of an M9 right off the bat (it was kinda neat being a
PFC with an M9!). In my unit SNCOs, Officers and Section Heads rated the M9 (as
well as myself). Section Heads usually held the rank of Sergeant, though there
were a few Corporals from time to time. This practice of issuing Section Heads
an
M9 was a "nice-ity" as we did not have enough Officers and SNCOs to
eat up all our M9s and by no means was this practice "Official Marine Corps
Policy". I do imagine that other units have similar practices. Here is an
issue breakdown:
M16A2: M7
M16A2 w/ M203 M7 (no idea why, as you cannot fix the bayonet w/ the 203
attached)
M249 SAW: M9 Fighting Knife ??????
Now, to further confuse the issue, it SEEMS that M249 SAW Gunners are supposed
to get a Fighting Knife. We never had either a bayonet or Fighting Knife to
issue with the SAW (we only had a "one for one" issue - i.e. 130
rifles equals 130 bayonets).
I have seen many pictures from Iraq showing the new USMC Bayonet/FK issued to
just about everyone, regardless of weapon issue. I have been told (not seen on
paper) that the USMC Bayonet/FK is to replace both the M7 and Fighting Knife as
soon as possible.
The 10520 card is officially a NAVMC 10520 Ordnance Custody Receipt Card. It is
a card that has basic information about the Marine it is issued to and the
weapon it is assigned to. It would breakdown like this:
Unit
Name
SSN
Commanding Officer (or designated other) Signature
Weapon Type
Serial Number of Weapon (If applicable)
Rack Number
10520 Number (on back of card)
This card is meant to streamline the issue of ordnance gear. All weapons are
kept in an Armory, and in order to issue any weapon a Marine must either hand
over a 10520 for the item requested OR fill out an ECR card (known as a
"temp loan" card). It comes down to the fact that anything that leaves
the Armory must be accounted for to an individual Marine.
Thanks Mike, that is great information and might just be the answer to
finding a Ka-bar in the government when even Ka-bar themselves say they haven’t
sold them any since World War Two.
WW I Prototype
In a recent conversation with out good friend Bill Stone we discussed a steel
bladed knuckle knife that was identical to one seen in the Adrian Van Dyk sales
catalog from long ago. The knife Mr. Van Dyk had for sale from his own
collection was made entirely from brass as it was a tool room mockup design
piece. The knife recently purchased by Bill is a steel bladed version which
would have been the knife that was made were it to have been approved. The knife
in Mr. Van Dyks collection was written about and picture in an American Blade
article "Knuckle Knives of WW I" many years ago. The knife came from
the Springfield Armory where it was built. We don’t have any further
information on the knife now in the Stone collection but we would sure like to
know more about it. Here we have some photos of the steel version just for your
viewing pleasure.
Thanks Bill for sharing this very rare knife with us!
Quote
I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of
tyranny over the mind of man.
Thomas Jefferson
More Case V-42 Reproductions
Quite a stir recently on a few e-bay auctions with mint V-42 scabbards going
for pretty big money. One was so good it had me fooled until a consensus was
opinionated that it was too good to be true. Just days after one of these
auctions ended a fellow reader, John H. sent us an e-mail telling us about a
very little known reproduction item made in the 1980’s. It seems that a
company from Barrington Ill. Named Continental Precision Products Inc made these
knives and scabbards for the retail sales area and they were eagerly scooped up
by re-enactors as they were very authentic looking. The knives are easily
detected as they have crossed arrows deeply struck in the ricasso but the
scabbards are not so easily detected. The secret relayed to us is to look inside
the belt loop for a stamping in white ink, CPPI and you will then know. We have
seen some with the wrong rivets but some are so good they will trip you up in a
minute.
Thanks John!
A Few Photos From The Fighting Front.
Note the Ka-bars they are wearing… private purchase items.
No knives but a great photo anyway.
A Long Collins #191
A recent e-mail from or good friend Robin B. requested a bit of information
on a Collins #191 he just purchased at an antique show. Now the Collins #191
purchased and used by the USMC in WW II was and still is a very hard item to
find. Once found it is almost impossible to link it to the USMC as it is a
standard production item… or so we thought. In checking the records in D.E.
Henry’s book and at the Canton Historical Society the # 191 should have a 25
inch blade. The Marine Corps items were of a 20 ½ inch blade. This is somewhat
perplexing as The Collins Co. would normally assign a new number to an item that
was even a slight bit different so as not to be confusing. The machete just
picked up by Robin is of the 25 inch length although the tip on his example has
been altered. So could this be a clue if the original commercial model had the
25 inch blade while the USMC blades are in the 21 (actually measuring 20 ½
inches) inch length. The short #191 is very scarce but the long #191 is even
rarer from what we have observed. We have not seen a catalog or any other
evidence that the #191 was ever sold retail in the shorter length. Have you??
Another Long Scabbard.
In our last installment prior to the summer break we ran a short piece on the
long M1913 cavalry sabre scabbard. Well Eric from Michigan sent us a few great
photos of another model of the frog made to hold this sabre onto the saddle. We
do not have a catalog or report showing this model but there can be no doubt of
what it is for. The brass hooks snap into the two large loops on the scabbard to
hold it in place. This example does not have any markings on it that we have
noted but think for sure they were there at some time. As this items is in great
condition it was well cared for over the years. If anyone knows what the proper
model designation is for this scabbards frog we would sure appreciate hearing
form you. Thanks Eric!
While we are at it a quote on the subject
"The inferiority of our sabre exercise is the real cause for our disuse
of the saber…admitting that the sabre is at present only an encumbrance to the
American horse, if follows from the premises that the real reason therefore is
ignorance of its use. A library is useless to a man who cannot read. The remedy
is simple. Let him learn to read. Teach our [cavalry] to use the sabre
properly…more the shame for the Government to persist in issuing a weapon
which they do not teach the men to use."
Army and Navy Journal, June 6, 1874
More info on the V-42 reproductions
Here we are informed by another reader of where to find the reproduction V-42
with crossed arrows. The knives are currently for sale at the following web
site: http://www.smithtac.com/Knives.html
"Uncle" Bob Riggs Knives
A reader Eric S. writes to us about a knife he just found and was looking for
some information on it. Attached were some photos of the knife and much to our
surprise it was a rare Riggs knife. As we have not written about them before
this seems like a great time to do so. We have never found any source material
for these knives so have held off on reporting about them although we have known
of them for years. Most of the information we do know of them comes from word of
mouth and the excellent book by Bill and Debbie Wright, Military Theatre Knives
of World War Two. The knives were made by Bob Riggs of Fife Washington. Blade
lengths varied but most observed had 6 to 8 inch blades with fullers and are of
the clip point design. Handles are Elh horn held in place by 6 rather large
copper pins that are spun on both sides. The full length double guards are made
from brass which was hard to come by in wartime USA. Riggs was a retired
machinist and tinsmith. Born in 1861 in Indiana he retired from his official
working years in 1937. Riggs started making knives for servicemen in 1943 at the
age of 81. Prior to that he had made knives as a hobby since his retirement in
his home machine shop. The estimate generally acknowledged is that he made
between 150 and 300 knives during the war, that classes his knives as a rare
commodity today. The knives were reportedly sold for $4.00 each and took about 2
days to make. The knives were stamped with a large "V" on the ricasso
which was the standard symbol for Victory during World War Two. Riggs passed
away on February 7th 1946 while chopping wood at his home. He lived
long enough to see the end of the war that he provided knives for and speak with
a few men that carried them. Today a Riggs knife in excellent condition with
proper scabbard would bring in the range of $1200.00 to $1500.00. A good
investment. Thanks Eric!
A Strange Case M3 Marking
In an e-mail from a fellow reader Eric R. we find a guard marked Case knife
of a different type. The markings do not run in the same direction as the
typical Case markings do. While we have never seen one like it before we are not
sure of what exactly it is. Eric sent us a few photos to observe so they are
shown here. Have you ever seen one like this before? Do you have any opinions on
the item or knowledge on it? Sure would like to hear from you on the topic.
Thanks Eric!
October 2004
The State of the Press
We read the following quite some months ago and thought it a very well
written piece. It put us on the trail of others like it to compare with and
forward to friends with like opinions. Well what an exasperating experience it
has been. We are reminded daily of the price young men in the armed forces pay
in blood yet seeking out a story of courage or esprit de corps is almost
non-existent. We have not agreed with the Op-Ed page for many years but that is
to be expected, they are opinion pieces and not meant to be agreeable by all. We
refer to the news press that should be reporting both sides of the story. Try to
find a story on what our men in Iraq or Afghanistan have done right. Good Luck.
Most of the Most Wanted card deck is gone but did we hear one story other then
scum-bag number one getting caught in a hole, Nada. Successful fighting deserves
praise from the home front, just as much as those who were in the wrong place at
the wrong time. Our men are doing it everyday but we never hear of it, where is
our Ernie Pyle?
May 21 2004
SCOTS TELL OF CHARGE
By Keith Mcleod And Michael Christie
SCOTS soldiers last night told how they launched a bayonet charge on Iraqi
militiamen after hours of battle. An Army insider last night gave the Record an
insight into the bravery of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.
They were forced to use 'cold steel' as supplies of ammunition ran low. Many of
the militiamen turned and fled but the close-quarters fighting left around 20
rebels dead.
Thirty-five of Shia Moslem cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's followers died and two
British troops were injured during the three-hour battle. A senior Argylls
officer said last night: 'After a fierce fight and with small amounts of ammo
left, they put in a conventional left-flanking attack. 'With bayonets attached,
they finished off the enemy who had not run off.' It was the first time in 22
years the Army had used bayonets in action. The last came when the Scots Guards
stormed Argentinian positions during the Falklands War.
The battle developed following a distress call from a group of eight British
soldiers last Friday. The troops under the command of Major Adam Griffiths were
surrounded on the notorious Route Six highway while en route to Camp Abu Naji in
southern Iraq. Their LandRovers were riddled with bullets and they came under
attack from rocket launchers and grenades. But as a 30-strong platoon of Argylls
responded to the SOS, the militia were getting reinforcements. The men from the
Stirlingshire-based regiment were forced to dig in and shoot back. The Argylls
were aided by a detachment of the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment, who arrived
at the scene in armoured
Warrior vehicles. More than 150 Iraqis were said to be involved in last week's
battle. Military sources say the militiamen miscalculated the response from the
original group of soldiers.
Last night, a source said: 'Morale is very good following this serious incident.
'The insurgents have been laying ambushes on Route Six one of the main roads
between Basra and Baghdad for some time. 'Previously, the response from small
British groups has been drive on. These militiamen were obviously expecting this
to happen again.
'The enemy have been picking their targets, mainly two LandRovers with six to
eight soldiers on board. With those odds, it is sometimes best to keep on going,
but the attack was so sustained, the LandRovers stopped and returned fire. 'We
now hope that these attacks on Route Six will stop, but we are taking nothing
for granted.'
Intelligence gathered since the bayonet charge suggests it shocked the militia
fighters, who expected the outnumbered Scots to flee. The source added: 'The
injuries received by our troops were shrapnel to the hand and shrapnel to the
groin. Both of these casualties were as a result of
rocket-propelled grenades fired at them. 'Both the injured guys are back with
their units and doing fine.'
The Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment arrived on the scene in 37ton Warriors
just as the Scots' ammo was getting low. They found many Iraqi militia fleeing
the bayonet charge. Around 20 Iraqis who chose to stand and fight were killed by
the troops of both regiments.
The Argylls' forebears formed The Thin Red Line which kept 25,000 Russians at
bay at Balaclava during the Crimean War of the 1850s. In 1967, Argylls commander
Lieutenant-Colonel Colin Mitchell known as Mad Mitch stormed a rebel stronghold
in Yemen. Accompanied only by 15 pipers playing Scotland The Brave, he
recaptured Crater Town, the commercial heart of Aden, which had been in enemy
hands for two weeks.
The regiment has won 16 Victoria Crosses.
More on the French Foreign Legion Knife
We received a letter from our good friend Sgt Major John Larsen on the topic
of the M1917 bayonets cut down to knife length. John had also contacted the
French Foreign Legion museum about the knife and received the same reply as we
did, the knife is not FFL issue. Well John found a few more photos of the
Legionnaires wearing the knives in various campaigns ranging from 1978 to 1982.
The knives seem to be issued to men that would not be issued a bayonet and that
makes sense. A sniper with the FRF1 7.7X54 rifle, a MAT-49 SMG and another man
not holding a rifle. This is in accordance with the previous photos we have run
showing the tanker in Desert storm wearing one. So it seems the museum continues
to deny it but the only soldiers ever seen wearing the knife are from the FFL.
We shall continue to call it the FFL knife all the same.
Bayonets More Popular?
Now that the ridiculous "Assault Gun" ban has come to an end we
have seen multiples of people paraded on the Idiot Box telling us how many
people are going to rush out and buy a "real" assault weapon. Well we
don’t know what a "real" assault weapon would be but we do know that
semi-automatic rifles with bayonet lugs will be available again. With this said
expect to find gun owners looking for bayonets more then ever. The release of
the Garand by the CMP started a fire storm of people looking for M1 bayonets,
both long and short to match the proper date of the rifle. The same is true of
the M4 bayonet for the M1 Carbine. Banning an object and not the act of doing
the evil will never work. Open your eyes, look around the world and tell us
where it has worked? We have no need here for a semi-automatic battle rifle but
being told we can’t own one because we are not trusted with it kind of gets
under the skin and we are fully against it.
A Presidential Bayonet
While watching the recent funeral for President Reagan our better half asked
if we had any bayonets like they were showing in the procession, a light bulb
went off. Now just how could we attain just such an item and have provenance to
show with it. The thought process had begun. Then it dawned on us… Homer
Brett. A meeting with Homer at the Allentown Pa. Forks of the Delaware gun show
set the stage for the first step on the way to obtaining one of these articles.
For some quick background Homer works closely with the US Navy Honor Guard in
Washington D.C. and has both provided the M5A1 bayonets for them and
photographed several events they have participated in. This was the link we were
looking for. A asked Homer if it would be possible to obtain one of the bayonets
that were used in the funeral and to have provenance it was there. He replied in
the affirmative that he would look into it and see what he could come up with. A
few weeks later a package arrived at the door. Opening the box revealed a
chromed M5A1 bayonet made by Milpar in excellent condition. Along with the
bayonet was an M8A1 scabbard that had been painted white on the body and black
on the exposed metal parts. Attached to the scabbard was a white, woven web frog
with round brass eyelets used for attachment to a leather belt. Quite an
attractive package when viewed from afar but rather thickly painted when viewed
from close. In fact the paint is so thick you can hardly read the M8A1 stamping
on the scabbard throat. But again when viewed without the collectors eye the
gleaming white and shiny black are a very hard package to top. On the back of
the scabbard and the frog a name is written using a type of indelible marker,
the name Vancil is prominent on the package. Another name, Kawkonen is lined
out, the previous owner of the web frog. Currently in the Navy Honor Guard the
scabbard assembly with frog is issued to a man and kept for the duration while
the bayonet is and issue when needed item to be returned to the Armory and
counted for inventory. The blade is the typical M5A1 piece but is not sharp,
whether that is from the chrome plating or if it was purposely dulled before
plating we do not know. In any case we suppose it is a good thing it is not
sharp as with all the drilling these Honor Guardsman do it would be a very
interesting proposition indeed. Along with the bayonet and scabbard we also
received a front page of the Washington Post dated Thursday June 10, 2004
showing Seaman Vancil on the steps of the Capital Building in the "Present
Arms" position. The flag draped casket of the President is in the
background and the First Lady, Nancy Reagan reaching out to touch it. Quite a
dramatic moment in our countries history captured on film with Seaman Vancil in
the foreground and the gleaming bayonet present. Other items included in the
package is a Ceremonial Guard scroll for wear on the right shoulder of the Navy
Dress White uniform. A large round patch for use on the Navy windbreaker jacket
only and a copy of the President’s funeral card handed out at the ceremony was
also enclosed. In all a very nice grouping of items from a very moving and
memorable moment.
More on NASA Knives
We received an e-mail from Tom Wolfe who wrote a very detailed article in
Blade magazine on the topic several years ago. Tom answered a question we posed
several years ago about the Swiss Army knife in use by NASA. Here is what Tom
wrote to us:
"The original SAK's used by the astronauts were the "Master
Craftsman" model. It was first used in the Apollo astronauts that flew
aboard the Skylab space station. Skylab was in real trouble and the only general
purpose tool that they had aboard was this knife.
In November, 1982, I wrote an article on Astronaut's knives for Blade magazine.
In it, I covered the Randall Model 17 that flew with the Mercury astronauts, and
the Case machete preferred by the Gemini astronauts to survive their grueling
survival training in Panama. The last section covered the SAK and its use on
Skylab. (I am sorry but back issues of this article are not available
from the magazine, and even I don't have a copy in my possession. I foolishly
gave away all of my copies.)
Soon after the publication of the article, the Victorinox company renamed the
Master Craftsman as the new "Astronaut" model. They added a
nickel-silver space shuttle inlay into their famous red handle on the same side
as their Swiss emblem. No other changes were made to the knife. It was available
in some retail stores.
By the 90's both the Master Craftsman and the Astronaut models were pulled from
the Victorinox line-up. I have no information as to their reasons. (I assume low
sales volume.) Although SAKs are still used in shuttle missions (pre-Columbia) I
do not know which model is used.
Both the Master Craftsman and Astronaut models featured the following tools:
2 knife blades
metal file with hacksaw edge
wood cross-cut saw blade
scissors
Yankee screwdriver/bottle opener/nail-puller
small Yankee screwdriver/can opener
awl
Phillips screwdriver
a third Yankee screwdriver
tooth pick
tweezers
lanyard ring
I have both models in my possession and can guarantee the accuracy of this
description. I hope this answers your questions."
We have recently been in contact with another source of some great inside
information on Astronauts and using knives. As we know the standard kit knife
for the space program is the trusty Swiss Army Knife. In addition they also use
a custom made Emerson Knives SARK folder. This knife features a hooked blade to
allow opening of food packages very simple. It is also equipped with a thumb
stud for one handed opening, a great feature here on earth as well as in space.
These knives are handed out in kit form before the launch and must be returned
when the mission is over. They are accounted for. Another item that has proven
very useful and in demand is the Multi-tool. On a recent 6 month voyage to the
Space Station astronaut Don Pettit carried a Leatherman Wave as a personal
choice. We hear that Leatherman has made a titanium model just for this very
purpose. The blades were still stainless but the frame is made from the
lightweight material and nicely anodized. It carries an inscription on the
handle as well. As an astronaut can not endorse any product officially they have
to be careful not to endorse stuff unofficially as well so most of the
unofficial personal choice carry items may never be reported. We remember
several years ago seeing an MC-1 orange handled auto knife with a NASA part
number on it on display at the Blade Show in Atlanta. The Case machetes and the
MC-1 were part of a display put on by our good friend Bill Adams. They were part of the official kit for the astronauts as well as
the chase planes that escort the Shuttle back to earth.
PI Bayonet, Truth is Stranger Then Fiction
We received an e-mail the other day asking about a PI bayonet that was just
purchased off e-bay. While not common we do see these Mark 2 bladed knives with
M7 handles every so often listed so it was no surprise to hear. Now saying one
of these knives is a PI bayonet is quite a stretch, usually just a Mark 2 that
someone added the bayonet parts to. The bayonet itself came from a surplus store
Oregon selling on ebay. The strange part was the fellow who bought it, Bill
Humes, lives in Philadelphia, Pa. Very close to where we live. Bill did some
surfing on the web and found this here page listed and my address, Deptford, NJ.
Now it gets even better as Bill’s brother also lives in Deptford. We exchanged
a few e-mails and setup a meeting to take a look at the bayonet. It turns out
his brothers house is about 3 minutes from my house, about three streets away!
Another knife / bayonet collector just around the corner and we never knew it!
So the meeting was set to view the piece. More interested in meeting the folks
then the item as I knew it would almost certainly be bad news. Bill paid very
little for the piece so all the odds were against it. At first glance the
bayonet was well perserved and in great condition. The first thing to note was
it had the proper markings, Camillus, N.Y. and U.S.N. / MARK 2 on the other
side. This is a good sign as most folks who would fake such a thing haven’t a
clue as to the proper markings. The second item was the sawback on the spine.
All neatly machined and properly spaced. This is rarely seen on a fake knife.
Most are hand carved and very awkward in appearance. The knife was marked on the
guard with white paint indicating the number 33 while the typical USN Mark 2
scabbard, not a part of the test, was marked in the same way but with the number
16. So far so good. This item was a cutting edge up model, the test used two
variations, cutting edge of the blade oriented up and cutting edge down. We
brought along a copy of the test to verify and number 33 was a cutting edge up
model that was used and survived the test in almost perfect order. Is it
starting to sound good, you bet, it now held my undivided attention sitting at
the dining room table. We next took off the handle grips to look for the grip
markings, all are as they should be. The pommel / latch-plate was as it should
be and the guard was correct. We were looking at a genuine P.I. Test Bayonet
from the 1976 / 1977 test. One that survived and made it’s way into the
surplus market. A few days later I heard from Bill again as he followed up with
the seller to see if he could find out any background on the knife. It seems it
came in with a load of other items from someone who had spent time at Ft Lewis
in Washington state. That makes perfect sense as the bayonets were tested by the
Ranger School candidates and many of the Rangers ended up with a few of the
pieces. There is a Major General who as a young Captain was involved in the test
fondly still carries his P.I. Bayonet on his gear today in Afghanistan. The
knife tested by those Rangers couldn’t have found a better home as Bill
related to me, "our brother Frank W. Humes was a Ranger Sniper in Vietnam
with the 75th Rangers, K Company. He was KIA 7-8-69. " Even if I had seen
it on ebay I most likely would not have bid on it, the chances were remote at
best it was legitimate, Bill took the chance. A great story with a great ending.
It always makes us glad when a real prize is uncovered. It saves the piece for
future generations sure but it also reminds us that the next item we look at may
in fact be an extremely rare piece and the faith is again renewed.
LF&C Markings
It was recently brought to our attention that the earliest of the Model 1913
Sabre’s made by Landers, Frary & Clark were serial numbered. When did this
practice stop and by who’s authority? Was this a major rethinking on the
Ordnance Departments part? The M1917, M1918 and the M1918Mk1 knives were never
marked with a serial number yet prior to this and after this date bayonets were
still serial numbered. The bolo knives had serial numbers and also they were
made without them. The Model 1917 bayonet lacks a serial number in the same
years that the Springfield made Model 1905 was numbered. Why, can anyone tell
us?
Updated November 2004
U.S. Type 99 Bayonets in Korea
We recently received a document from the National Archives in reference to
the Japanese Type 99 rifles being altered for use in Korea. The document from
Headquarters, 229th Ordnance Base Depot, APO 503 on the Conversion of
Japanese Model 99 Rifles dated 14 May 1953 states that:
1,235 Rifle, US, Type 99 Japanese, Cal .30 (long)
43,410 Rifle, US, Type 99 Japanese, Cal .30 (short)
were on hand with 1,909 rifles on hand in depot stocks that have not yet been
converted. In speaking with our good friend Bill Porter about the Jap 99 items
Bill sent us a few photos of his converted Jap 99 bayonet. We also note in
Johnsons book on Japanese Bayonets it is written up as used by the South Korean
Army, ROK during the war. We are seeking additional information on this topic,
if you can add anything to the above on the rifle, the bayonet or recommend a
good reference on the subject please let us know. Friend and fellow BCN member
Raymond LaBar tells us that 133,000 of the rifles in total were converted to the
configuration of Rifle, US, Type 99 but how many of the bayonets did they
produce or actually bayonet scabbards.
Japan played a major role in the Korean War although still technically an
enemy nation under military occupation. Washington repeatedly objected to
occupied Manchuria, as a sanctuary for the Communists while Japan was our own
huge aircraft carrier for the jump off to Korea. While the US contributed to the
rebuilding of Japan nothing helped as much as the Korean War. Rebuilt Japanese
factories made every sort of item the US troops needed adding to the economy.
Contracts for manufacturing as well as service industries from vehicle repairs
to prostitutes were all in demand during the buildup and duration of the war.
The industrious Japanese worked in every conceivable occupation, of the 47 LST’s
used for the Inchon landing 37 were crewed by Japanese, enemies just 5 years
earlier.
Quote:
Benedict Arnold was a decorated American war hero, wounded in combat, but that
doesn't stop us from criticizing him for what he did later.
Thomas Sowell 2004
Morey Mk1 Desert Storm Knives
In a recent thread on Knife Forums a discussion was brought up on knives made
during Operation Desert Shield / Desert Storm. Now knives used in that Operation
is one thing but knives made in that time frame is quite another. The first one
that came to our mind was the knuckle knives made by our good friend Dale
Sandberg. These knives were made right here in the USA by Dale himself and we
are sure there were many other custom makers producing knives for our fighting
men overseas. This one knife posted about struck us as strange but we had heard
of it before, actually on many occasions but could never track it down. Well
with the modern invention of the Internet people, countries and events are all
within our grasp if we know where to ask. We didn’t. One fellow posted about
the knife, (something that never occurred to us) and much to our amazement an
answer was shortly received. And, it not just a few opinions or speculation on
the knife but an actual letter from the fellow who made the knives in question,
Chuck Morey. A quick search on ebay turned up a Morey knife posted for sale. We
placed a bid and won the auction. When we communicated with the seller he stated
he didn’t know much about the knives but his uncle who made them would be able
to answer any questions we might have. The seller forwarded my e-mail to his
Uncle Chuck and a reply was received the next day! Imagine that, now in
communications with the maker of the Morey Mk1 Knife thru an auction for one of
his knives passed through another person! Chuck was willing to answer any
questions we had and would be more then happy to research his part in any thing
we needed.
It all started during the Operation Desert Shield stage when Gunner’s Mate
(GMM3) Chuck Morey was assigned to the Guided Missile Cruiser USS Worden CG-18
out of Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. He and few friends started making knives in the
machine shop for fun stating the "the old Vietnam era knives that we were
issued were too heavy and bulky". After making a few knives and
experimenting a bit Chuck decided on a prototype that he liked and started
shopping around for someone to produce it for him. As the ship was anchored in
Saudi Arabia this is where the shopping for a manufacturer began. The smallest
order anyone with the capability to produce knives would take was 1000 so it was
decided that the 1000 knives would be an investment and a deal was struck. The
total price for the knives, scabbards, boxes and packaging would be $8,800.00,
Chuck’s life savings at the time. As days went by follow up with the
manufacturer proceeded with delay after delay being announced. In case you don’t
remember the war wasn’t exactly that long, so speed was of the essence. The
knives finally arrived in the first week of March 1991 just as the war was
officially ending. At this time they were about to head back to Pearl Harbor as
the mission was completed for the USS Worden. Chuck never got a chance to sell
many of the knives to other service members. "There was a Russian ship in
the United Arab Emirates that we met up with and I traded a few knives for some
Russian Navy things like hats so there may be a few knives now in Russia."
"I think I sold more knives to Germans, than anyone else. I sold a few in
Hawaii when we got back also." It was at this time that Chuck noticed
something about his crate of knives, many were not serviceable, the bottom of
the pack was filled with substandard knives covered with all the good ones on
the top, a fast one had been pulled on our entrepreneur. Many of the knives were
so bad that they were thrown away, Chuck didn’t want to have his name on those
knives or be associated with them. Another fact was also staring to arise, as
the knives were in the Navy and exposed to salt air they started to show signs
of rusting. As they are marked Stainless on the blades all we can surmise is
that it is a very low chromium content stainless or perhaps not stainless at
all. Buffing the knives brought the shine back again. The knives were selling
for $10.00 to US or Allied troops and slightly more to others. It wasn’t a
point of trying to make any money on them, it was just for fun as an experiment,
Chuck told us.
The knives themselves are don’t really look like the typical military issue
knife. More like a commercial product one would find featured as a fighting
knife. They are all individually packed in a white box with the Morey Knives USA
logo in red and gray. It is actually a well-designed logo that would go well in
the commercial sales side of the business. The knife is designated as the Mk1
(pronounced Mark 1) as that follows the typical Navy Ordnance protocol as would
be expected of a Gunners Mate serving in the Navy. Each knife is again
individually wrapped in a plastic bag for protection sealed inside the box.
Overall length of the knife is 11 inches with the blade being 5 7/8 and the
handle and guard at 5 1/8 inches. The guard is a full double crossguard made
from the same material the blade is being quite thick at 3/16 inch X 2 inches
long. The blade is a fully double-edged design sharpened on both sides to a very
sharp edge. The center of the knife features a full length fuller on each side.
On the ricasso we find the markings MOREY-MK1 deeply stamped in one straight
line. On the reverse ricasso the word "STAINLESS" is stamped and the
quotation marks are included in the stamping. Most likely something "lost
in the translation" on the specs Chuck called for. The handle is made from
an injection molded plastic of some type that is black in color. A large
"M" is cast into the handle along with three long grooves on each side
for better gripping. The end of the handle features a thong hole for safely
tying your knife in place on you wrist or on your belt. The scabbard is made
from very thin leather with a very thick welt that is dyed black. Double row
stitched with black nylon thread and riveted with two hollow tube type rivets at
the throat for added safety and strength. The knife is retained in the scabbard
by two leather straps with individual snaps. All the hardware, snaps and rivets
are brightly plated chrome. It is securely held in place and not likely to go
anywhere. The bottom of the scabbard features a steel "D" hook for a
tie down or inverse mounting on web gear. While talking about wearing the knife
one obvious item is missing, there are no loops or cuts in the leather to allow
the scabbard to be affixed to a belt! A major oversight on the manufacturers
part we would guess?
Over the following years Chuck has been selling a few knives here and some
there but nothing on a large scale, having fun doing so. As Chuck puts it,
"Morey Knives was never an actual company, just an experiment, and a failed
experiment at that. I wanted to manufacture my own knife, so I gave it a shot. I
was young and naive when I had the knives made, and got a little more that I
bargained for, I lost a couple thousand dollars in the deal, but it was a good
learning experience." When we quizzed Chuck on making another knife in the
future he responded: "I've been thinking a lot about making another knife,
since I talked to you last. But, I want to do it right this time. The knife
would have to be priced within an enlisted man's grasp. There are so many
"military" knives out there that are unrealistically priced. It would
also have to be high quality, and made in the US. If I come up with anything, in
the next few years, I'll let you know." We certainly hope he does!
Rare Knives and Pricing
We were recently sent a photo of one of the rarest US knives in existence.
The present owner want to know if we could confirm it as being legit and a value
associated with it. Well as very few exist it is rather hard to do either but a
few hints confirm it to be what it is represented as. We don’t know of any
being or that have been reproduced. It follows the form exactly. The scabbard is
much to much trouble to replicate in detail, and a few other less obvious items
as well. Placing a price would be rough, when was the last time you heard of one
changing hands?? We usually suggest listing an item on eBay with an extremely
high reserve and watch the auction. The top bid id what someone at that time was
willing to pay for it. The actual price ranges usually run closer to the second
and third place bidders unless they get caught up in a bidding war during a
frenzy. It will cost you a couple of bucks for the listing but you can find out
for yourself what value someone else places on your toy. Then you get to decide
if you want to actually part with it or not. Anyway here is a photo of that Fair
Sword we started talking about, enjoy.
Crash Axes
We received a recent e-mail from P.O. Dan Edwards U.S.C.G. an Aviation
Survival Tech. Dan tells us that they have about 40 of the axes on the shelf and
they are currently in use. This was surprising to us as we had thought they were
long obsolete. The current manufacturer of the axe is W.S. Darley of Melrose
Park Ill. The CAGE for them is 15852. The current part number for the ax is
H-J728 for the serrated version and H-J729 for the straight edged version. The
leather sheath is part number H-J2801. The old part number, 42D8331 tells us
when that item was adopted, 1942. The handle continues to be insulated from high
voltage to allow the user to cut through electrical wires without the fear of
getting zapped. These are commercial off the shelf or COTS items that can be
procured directly from Darley. Darley currently holds the GSA contract on the
item. Glad to hear they are still serving, thanks Dan!
No More Beer for Soldiers on Web
Here is an amusing story we recently read on the web. It is a true one and
one that reminds us who is doing the fighting and who they are fighting for.
Next time you are in an establishment and see a fellow in uniform, buy him a
beer.
Beerforsoldiers.com <http://www.beerforsoldiers.com/>
has been disabled.
The Web site, which enabled visitors to donate money that would buy a GI a
brewsky, was judged to be in violation of military ethics, reports Stars and
Stripes.
Sgt. Dale Rogers, who set up the site in February before being sent to South
Korea, and then Iraq, put up a notice last week that due to legal pressure,
he was handing the site over to his brother, a civilian.
"I am currently serving somewhere outside of Fallujah, Iraq," Rogers
wrote.
"My Web site is going through a change; I am turning over this Web site to
my brother due to legal pukes who say a soldier cannot solicit beer
donations to increase the morale of his fellow soldiers. What a crock! But I
am a soldier and I have to comply."
That didn't seem to have been enough. By Sunday night beerforsoldiers.com
had changed its motto to "The Web site where you cannot buy us a
beer."
"We would still love for you to buy us a beer," the site adds,
"but the
legal folks say you can't."
The site had previously offered buttons where visitors could charge their
credit cards $2 for a 40-oz. bottle, $6 for a "tall beer from the
bar," $7
for a six-pack, $10 for a "pitcher" or $20 for a "keg club."
While posted in South Korea with the Army's 1st Battalion, 503rd Infantry
Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, Rogers would use
money collected from the site to buy soldiers drinks in local bars.
Since alcoholic beverages are forbidden to American personnel in Iraq,
Rogers had planned to save up the site's latest earnings until his leave in
Qatar.
A spokesman for the 2nd Brigade Combat Team told Stars and Stripes via
e-mail that the unit's lawyers had determined that the Web site violated the
Joint Ethics Regulation.
"The soldier seems to be using his association with the Army as a way to
solicit funds for beer. Whatever his intentions, and I'm sure they are
genuine and pure, (the Web site is) ... illegal," the spokesman wrote.
"I
noted ... however, that the site is still up and running. I am confident it
will be shut down soon."
It's illegal for federal employees, including soldiers, to solicit or
receive gifts, said Ron Buchholz, an attorney for the Department of the
Army. He told Stars and Stripes that there were exceptions to the rule,
however.
Rogers is still adamant about his quest for brew.
"I won't back down! Stand me up at the gates of hell and I won't back
down,"
his Web site reads, quoting a Tom Petty song.
"You'd think that a soldier risking his life in a war zone, usually under
enemy attacks almost daily," he told Stars and Stripes in an e-mail,
"could
at least have the right to maintain a morale builder for his fellow
brothers, such as this Web site."
Lyon & Coulson
We recently heard from our good friend Bruce Canfield on some information he
recently dug up.
"I noticed you had some information on your website regarding one of the
makers of the M6 scabbard, Lyon & Coulson. During the course of researching
my upcoming book on the '03 Springfield, I discovered that Lyon & Coulson
also made leather lens covers during WWII for the Weaver 330C/M73B1 telescope
used with the M1903A4 sniper rifle. The company received a contract for 26,000
scope covers on March 22, 1943 for 32 cents per item. "
Thanks Bruce! We often run across items made by companies we are familiar
with but never associated with producing such items. We once found a contract
for the Union Cutlery Company to make boots. No description other then that,
boots. Could they have been the type one wears, a rifle scabbard, a folding top
for a truck or car?? Or maybe it was just a mistake and later canceled. We don’t
know but it was in writing.
The Old Guard
In a follow up to our picture of the Reagan bayonet our good friend Charlie
Flick sends us a photo of a member of the 3rd Infantry Div., the Old
Guard, walking his post at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. An intriguing part
of the photo shows the standard chromed M6 bayonet but it has a red or at least
wood colored handle. We have not observed one of these before. Does anyone have
any information on these hand grips? As you may have seen in a past edition here
the 3rd I.D. was deployed to Iraq recently. Not only are they young troops
perfect in dress and parades they sure can kick some butt on the field. Thanks
for the photo Charlie!
Western G46-8
We have handled many of these knives in the past and can comment on the
beautiful fit and finish they exhibit, a true high grade piece of steel meant to
go into harms way. One recurring item that comes up is the lack of information
on the Western Brand. There is a great book out there on Western, The
Knifemakers Who Went West, by Harvey Platts that shows us many of the old
designs and even catalog pages but does not dig deeply into each of the knives.
We are left to guess about much of the information and sift through the pieces
to put the puzzle together. With the sale of Western all the old information was
lost over time, records and people who worked for them are not around to set us
straight on even the simple items. When Camillus purchased Western we contacted
out good friend Tom Williams but it was indeed sad that nothing of historical
records remained. One question we do have on these knives is the pattern. If you
study the knives you will find two distinct patterns of the knives. The grinding
is different , the fuller is forged differently, even the point is different.
This more pronounced when you view Coles drawings in his two books. The bright
bladed version is very different then the blued version, why? What caused the
shift to one style or another? What pattern came first? Why? Many questions to
be answered but few places to look for them. Can anyone comment on it? The photo
below was provided by Johnny Peppers to illustrate the difference, thanks
Johnny.
The Ordnance Bomb
A recent knife procured by our good friend Warren Jones has us searching but
nothing yet in sight. We present it here to all the readers to see if someone
can help identify it. We can tell from the blade profile and parts it started
out life as a Hard Hat Diving knife but has had the handle changed at some point
in it’s life. The part we question is why there is an Ordnance Bomb stamped
into it? Why would the Army Ordnance Dept. proof stamp a divers knife? We are
unaware of any contracts Union Cutlery held with the Ordnance Dept for any items
but as you may have read above they did have a contract let to them for boots!
Warren confirms this is a stamped proof, not an engraved items some one may have
later put on to enhance a value. As the knife was procured at a reasonable price
it confirms this was not the last sellers intent. The Army did have a large
fleet of ships during WW II and still today they have Hard Hat Divers as part of
the Corps of Engineers but again we come back to what did Ordnance have to do
with it? Ordnance usually does not come into play with procurement of knives,
they have domain over bayonet purchased but the knife field is generally that of
the Quartermaster Dept. A obvious twist to this rule is the M3 trench knife as
it was an Ordnance Dept designed and procured knife. If anyone has and ideas or
can shed some light on this topic we would sure like to hear from you.
What To Use The M9 For…
Our good friend Mitch Jenkinson sends us a photo of a Marine who put his M9
bayonet to good use. While on patrol this Marine found himself under attack but
not from an armed human enemy but from a rather large snake. From the photos it
appears to be a new Ontario bayonet in use. A great photo for sure but back up
here a moment… A Marine with an Ontario M9 bayonet! This one slipped right
past us at first but when did the Marines procure the M9 bayonet from Ontario?
The only procurement we were aware of for the Marines was the Buck contract
piece that had USMC stamped into the ricasso. Did the USMC procure bayonets from
Ontario or did this Marine purchase his own?? Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks Mitch for the photo and the lead!
December 2004
A Friend's Passing
It is with deep sorrow and regret we heard of the passing of Ron Braehler. Ron
was a friend to the collector everywhere willing to share information he had
saved over the years. Many of the old ads we have up on the Reproduction page
came from Ron. I am sure there will be a lot of knives to find everyday where
Ron is now. All the best friend.
A Much Higher Note
We welcome back our good friend Carter Rila to the land of the living. Carter
was down for quite some time battling an illness. As soon as he got back to the
computer he was right at it again. Carter can make you put on your thinking cap
like no one else, quite a guy. Welcome back!
Serial Numbers
Our good friend Dick Boyd has taken on an adventure to climb quite a mountain.
Dick is establishing a database of serial numbers on Springfield knives. All
collectors who have a M1905 Hospital Corps Knife, an M1909 Bolo or a M1910 Bolo
that is serial numbered and dated Dick would love to hear from you. He has been
at it for quite some time and is looking for any new information to place high
and low numbers by year. All knives MUST BE SEEN to be verified, not something a
friend of a friend told you about. We all know the production numbers quoted by
Springfield are by Fiscal years and the dating of the equipment went by calander
year so the two numbers will never corolate but establishing a high and low may
give us some sense of how many were actually made in a given date stamping. This
could also establish a pricing pattern and place an emphasis on finding rare
years. Anyway you look at it it is a great endeavor and we look to Dick to lead
the way with finding the information. Send him an e-mail of the items you have
at hrbjlb@earthlink.net Tell him you
read about it on www.usmilitaryknives.com
Knives of North Vietnam
We received an e-mail from Dr. Rolf Bauche asking for information on some knives
used by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War. Sad to say we know little
to nothing about them. In addition we do not know of any works other then that
written by Homer Brett, The Military Knife and Bayonet, that even covers these
knives. We have seen books on NVA uniforms but do not own any so can not comment
on if they also contain knives. We also known of some monographs written during
the war for military studies on weapons but they do not include knives, at least
not the ones we have seen, they were mainly on rifles and hand fired weapons
such as the SKS, AK or the RPG. An interesting field of study that is pretty
much wide open in the English language to our knowledge. If you know of any
books that cover these items we would be happy to hear about them.
Click on the thumbnail for the full size photo
Lewis & Clark Knives
We have long known of the published lists of material used by the Lewis and
Clark Corps of Discovery but for one reason or another always failed to follow
up on it. The part of particular interest to us knife collectors is the one line
statement of "25 Large Knives" to be procured from the Harper’s
Ferry Arsenal along with the rifles and other ordnance supplies. In all of the
published journals I have ever read no further description is ever heard on the
topic of the knives. We fixate on whether or not a Hicks knife is actually
military issue to place it at the beginning of the list for issue blades circa
1840. No evidence I have ever found will corroborate this but it is still held
as fact as it has been written in not one but at least two books by famous
authors. One book, American Knives by Mr. Peterson states the information to
come from the Letter Books of the Allegheny Arsenal. The books are held in the
Philadelphia Branch of the National Archives. I know the place well and have
read through many of those books until eyestrain would let me proceed no further
only to come back again on another day. Not one reference to Hicks in any I read
nor any that the reference archivist could find for that matter and he read more
of them then I did at every sitting. Anyway, getting off track here a bit, the
1803 Lewis and Clark Corps would predate the Hicks by forty years as a military
knife. Now what exactly did it look like? Has anyone ever seen a picture or
artist rendering of what it would look like? Any museum holdings have a knife
from Harper’s Ferry in the same time frame? Our good friend Wayne Goddard
brought the topic up again to us and we have to admit not knowing what one looks
like. Anyone?
Inoel M3 Trench Knife
We recently had an inquiry from our good friend David Leifer on an M3 we had
never heard about before. Below is what David wrote:
Can anyone shed some light on this item? Does anyone have any data about a
company named INOEL?
A. I have acquired a very interesting specimen. It is an INOEL M3
(style) TRENCH KNIFE. In November 13, 2004, I thought that I saw ‘em
all and then I acquired another peculiar item. While I was at the Fort Myers
(FL) Knife club’ annual show, I came upon another M3 clone. This knife was the
"INOEL" M3. I attempted to discover who or what is INOEL. I came up
with either a Javanese company named "Himpunian Mahasiswa Teknologi
Industri Pertanian" in Timur (e-mail: inoel@mail.telkom.net),
"Inoel" buyers of mp3 circuit boards, 650 West Addison, Chicago, IL
60647 and "Firma INOEL" 04179 Leipzig, Germany which develops fuels.
This is a bit of a mystery!
This knife has the company logo stamped on the right side of the blade
approximately one half inch just forward of the guard almost at the ricasso on
the top half of the blade above the ridge line. The logo is a ‘crown pinion
gear’ with the stylishly printed letters "inoeL" inset within
the gear. This knife’s blade resembles a Kiffe-Parker type blades. The blades
have the "L" right angle beveling of the false edge. The blade
feels a bit thinner than the U.S. made knives. The guard is a bit thinner and
the pommel is thin and polished. All metallic parts are blackened. The handle is
a sixteen (16) ridged black colored plastic composition.
I can only surmise that this was another probable import that didn't catch on
with reenactors or enthusiasts.
B. Now, about the INOEL M8A1 type Scabbard. A scabbard came
with the INOEL M3 clone that I own. The black colored body is solid tapered
plastic with a finial. The finial is drilled through from front to back for
drainage (I presume). Additionally, in the case of my item, it has a green nylon
tie down thong. The belt webbing is a green colored nylon like composition. This
scabbard must be held to a GI Pistol belt by means of the M1910 type double end
hook. This scabbard can not be held to a belt because the webbing is sewn on its
sides and it’s not made to be a belt loop. This webbing is riveted to the body
by two rivets emplaced through a metallic protrusion from the locket. The safety
strap has a nylon web with a metallic snap. The locket is held into the body by
a metal bolt that protrude outside the body about one to two centimeters from
the mouth.
Well that is another one for the books that we have not heard about, anyone
with info on it?
Davis Knife
This is quite an interesting knife and story to go with it. Our good friend and
feature writer Bill Porter purchased a Patent Prototype knife made by Kurtis
Davis, the patent holder on the tang rod principal. This is the forerunner of
the M9 bayonet series to provide strength against breaking when lateral pressure
is place on the knife tang due to prying or bending. This folks is a piece of
knife / bayonet history that we feature here as the only place it can be seen.
Truly an historical piece, thanks to Bill for sharing it with us.
Click on the thumbnails for the full size photos
Model 1918 Bolo Scabbards
As happens every so often a great discovery has been made. While cruising on
ebay we found reference to an auction that had LF&C scabbards for sale that
were like new. Now we have seen these bolo scabbards for sale for years and most
are usually in very good to excellent condition but like new in the wrap… this
got our attention. When we clicked on the auction much to our surprise the
seller had a full case of the scabbards and he was the one to open the case! The
following photos were provided by Jeff Shrader, the seller, of the process of
opening the case that was sealed by LF&C in 1918! Jeff photographed the
whole event to prove the fact when selling the items but he in fact documented
the history for all of us historians to pore over. We can note the writing on
the side of the packing crate to find the Nomenclature, Bolo Scabbards, Model,
1918 and the fact that Experimental is written on them just as shown in the Cole
books. Inside the crate when opened we can find the packing slip put there in
1918 by the LF&C worker and or Ordnance Inspector. In this small piece of
paper we can find that the owner of the material is the US Ordnance Department.
That should put to rest the thought of what they are and who they were for. It
also shows us that a brand new out of the box scabbard has that small dent in
the bottom of the scabbard they almost all exhibit. This was due to the packing
of the scabbards heel to toe and overlapping which caused the larger mouth piece
to press against the bottom of the underlying scabbard causing the dent. We can
also find that the packing slip is dated August 13, 1918. This would be very
late to actually get into the war before the Armistice was signed on November
11, 1918 showing why virtually all the scabbards now seen are still in very good
or better condition. These were probably stored and never distributed by the
crate load at some Ordnance facility. The Experimental marking accounts for why
did not show up in any catalogs of Ordnance or later Quartermaster when the
assumed responsibility for all edged tools. LF&C made 204,217 of these
scabbards so they are not particularly rare but they do seem to be scarce at
times. These scabbards are merely a footnote in the history of the bolos but
none the less it is very satisfying when we can put it all together. Thanks to
Jeff for sharing the photos with us and having the forethought to take them
before opening the crate! He may still have some for sale, he can be contacted
at Jeff Shrader AGM http://www.advanceguardmilitaria.com
Click on the thumbnails for the full size photos
Kabar Commemorative Numbering
In a past article we have written that the Kabar 1978 Commemorative with the
richly blued features was made in total of 1200 pieces. This information was
relayed to us from the Kabar folks themselves. Our good friend Miguel Diaz sent
us a photo of one he purchased with a serial number of 1202, how do we explain
this?? Well we really can’t, obviously they made at least that number if the
numbering sequence is kept intact and it is correct. Well while looking through
some back issues we found an ad for the knife in a 1978 magazine. The issue was
for 5,000 knives to start with, not 1200 as we were told. It seems the factory
did not sell 5000 knives but did sell 1200 hence the number they gave us. So
some numbers were skipped or the number was just a rounded off version, this we
do not know. We do know that this 1202 is the highest number we have seen so
far.
Click on the thumbnails for the full size photos
Ulster Mark 2’s
Well this is a new one to us, Ulster Mark 2’s?? Having been searching for Mark
2’s pretty much all of our adult years we have never seen nor even heard of
them. Well we have records from Camillus Cutlery, courtesy of Tom Williams that
Ulster did indeed purchase from them Mark 2 blade blanks, and is some quantity.
The first purchase was 5/5/66 for a total of 3600 pieces. On 5/3/67 they again
purchased 5000 blanks of this pattern. On 11/11/68 6000 were purchased and on
2/26/69 Camillus supplied 2200 to them. That is a total of 16,800 Mark 2 blade
blanks, quite a few for a company that did not make the Mark 2. OK folks, what
were they for and who did Ulster supply them too??
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